Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

Dealing with Angry People

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Our goal at the abortion center is to offer help and hope to those going in. Sometimes our pleas and offers of help are met with angry opposition. This is nothing new. When truth is spoken some people become angry. But how do we as sidewalk counselors deal with this challenge? In this episode, we share our experiences and some Biblical insights that will encourage and equip you. 

I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, Lord, I am you. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. If you do ministry at an abortion center on any kind of a regular basis, you're going to encounter angry people from time to time. There are some helpful and productive ways to deal with those kinds of people. So join it says we talk about it. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. Welcome to the Gospel sent a pro life podcast. As always, we appreciate you guys, joining us and we hope that these episodes are blessing to you. We're trying to do over the past several weeks some more in depth training and equipping, speaking out of our experiences and going along the lines of our training that we have available for folks. If you want to take advantage of that training, we still do that once a month, first Saturday of every month, from two PM to four PM. We may be changing that in the future, but for now that's that's in place. If you want to get involved in that, maybe you're in a city where we have a missionary. Hopefully your missionary is already sent us your information and connected us with you to get trained. But if you're in a city where love life is and you don't yet know what we're talking about or you have not yet taken advantage of our training, we certainly would encourage you to do that. You could reach out to me if you wanted to, Daniel love life doubt war, or I'll send you the appropriate application. Or again, if you're in a city where there's a love life missionary, just reach out to them. If you're in a city where there's not yet a love life presence, we still do make our training available. That would mean that you're under love life or anything like that, but we just think that we have some wisdom that we can impart too folks that are on the sidewalk or folks that are just getting involved in ministry on the sidewalks, and so we would as long as you check a few boxes for us and fit in the the criteria of people were looking for, which basically believers in Jesus who want to serve the Lord in that capacity and are under the leadership of a local church, then will will invite you, singing invitation, after you feel out the application, to that training. So just wanted to mention that and what we're doing in these past couple of episodes have been along the lines of that, the framework of that training, taking the slides that we present in that training, and if you've been a part of that training you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you have not, we basically have a keynote or powerpoint presentation that we go through and just touch on some of these things. We have probably a few minutes per slide really, because we can't just go on forever, and so we get into some basic stuff and some some pretty indepth stuff, but this is us kind of really taken a deeper dive into each one of those slides. And this is a little out of order than what we normally do, but this subject came up with some of our missionaries and in some of our various cities they're dealing with angry people and and really tall grief. Yeah, some pretty angry people. So we're going to talk about how we, as ministers of the Gospel, people that Love Truth and want to stand for truth, but people who also want to obey what the Scripture says, that we should be gentle and meek, humble and all of that. We're going to talk about how we deal with people when they're angry, how we do that biblically. Yeah, so let's let's jump into a Vicky yeah, what? What kind of people are we talking about? I mean this is like a no brainer for you guys that are listening. Of course you're thinking, well, it's the people going into the abortion center that are angry. But, yeah, is it always the moms that are going into the abortion center that we're dealing with who are angry at us for being there? Yeah, sometimes, but not always. In fact, I would say more frequently it's the driver, a boyfriend, a friend who is trying to defend the mom is often already in when the people who came brought her or whatever, come over and are angry on her behalf. Yeah, often times it's the socalled pro choice people out there that are angry. Sometimes it's even passer by. Some we've doubt. We don't. Today with a man who was driving past, didn't like what we were doing and wanted to express his anger at what we were doing. So it can be anyone. This is this is a high tension situation. Yeah, and people have strong opinions about abortion and the socalled pro choice movement. So they can be easily ignited. You know, emotions, feelings can be easily ignited. Yeah, over the subject. So basically it can be anyone, but but particularly literally the people that are involved in the actual abortion, the mother of the friends who have brought it. Those are probably the most frequent. Yeah, and I think probably in my experience, I would say definitely agree with you, it's very...

...seldom and my experience that it is the mother going into for the abortion right because she's she's dead set on the abortion. She's going to go in typically not even respond. Yeah, if you know, either she's going to respond positively or typically she's going to just go into the abortion center. Now there are times, of course, I think, being out there as many years as we have that I've seen angry mothers, but often times it's either the father of the baby or it's a friend or family member, something like that, like what you mentioned. And I do want to say that when it is the pro choice the socalled pro choice people, we have seen. You pointed this out and I think it is so true. It is most evident following some sort of political or social event that they didn't like at pretty I know when trump was selected, there was a lot, yea of anger, and the anger escalated. So or when there's a shooting that they feel is unjust, certainly a police shooting, then we do see them take it out on us, even though we have nothing to do with with those events really. But, but, but it's you know, it helps to be aware of the news in a sense, because you will come knowing, well, there's probably going to be some heightened tension out here because of these events. Yeah, and I think it's even though we might want to kind of push people's buttons, we do have to be careful, you like with the blm stuff, the black lives matter stuff, and police shootings. Like I think there is you know, the Bible says, I think I've quoted this scripture a lot, the Bible says that if we bless our brother early in the morning loudly, it will be perceived as a curse. So is there a time and an appropriate time to point out some of the I mean the targeting of Plant Parenthood against black people? And you know, if black lives truly do matter, why would we support plan parenthood? Yeah, I think absolutely we need to point that out. Yeah, but right after there was a police shooting that many people's perception is that was unjust or whatever. Whether or not it was unjust, that can be talked about in some other setting. But out in front of the abortion center and calling out to black women going into the abortion center about you know, if you care about George Floyd, then you know you should care about the babies or dine or your baby. That's like right, you're poking a bear unnecessarily. Yeah, right. Even what you wear, and this did come up once, where things that you would never think about, someone wearing a shirt that said baby slife's matter, and that seems like, well, of course baby slife's matter. Why would that anger anyone? But it set off a lot of people that became very angry about that because they felt it was a slam and a misunderstanding of the depth of their anger over other issues. Yeah, and and so we, I think in general, we really want to avoid those sorts of things, just day away from them. Our mission is not to change the culture while we're out there regarding all these other issues. Yeah, our ministry is to hopefully save that unborn child. Yeah. So now, of course there's a there's a context for all of that and there's necessary conversations the need to be had over all of that. Yeah, and as far as changing the culture is concerned, we certainly do want to change the culture of death to a culture of life. But on the sidewalk in front of the abortion center, we're dealing with individual women, individual people going in. Yeah, that we want to have a oneonone conversation with. I think we've said it and made it very clear and are calling out training session or episode that we did, getting a little more in depth of that, that the goal of calling out is not just delivering information. It's certainly not just to be provocative and provoke people to anger. It's to provoke them to thought so that they would actually come and talk with us. Yes, now, I think that leads to it to one of the first points and maybe principles, and I could be jumping ahead of us just a little bit and kind of what we're talking about, but the principle of setting the tone with your tone. Yeah, right, so when you're calling out to people going into the abortion center and you're calling out in some angry or accusatory tone, and we all know what that sounds like. Yeah, right, we've all we've all had our mom when we were a kid, called out to us, did you clean your room? And it's accusatory. It's not a question, it's accusatory, right or whatever. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. You know the tone that provokes you to anger or offense or just being aggravated, right, and so being careful not to come across with that tone. Now we can get into I'm not trying to be Nitpicky, I'm not trying trying to be personally like Mamsie pamsy like. We need to be bold, we need to speak...

...with boldness, we need to speak with confidence. I think that's an important or important aspect of our tone, that it's a confident tone. Yeah, but our goal is to get them to come over and talk with us, and so we have to think what would lend itself, what kind of tone, what words would lend itself, lend themselves so someone actually stopping and coming over and talking with us, rather than stopping and coming over and trying to beat so exactly so, so, yet not not being accusatory and being inviting and gentle and kind, and the Bible certainly talks about that. Our tone. We are to speak truth. Yeah, but you can speak truth in in in a manner of love and compassion, and one of the things that I have certainly discovered, and I'm still not as good at it as I wish I were, but when I ask questions as opposed to lecture. Yeah, and I know I'm not really there lecturing, and I'm not saying our counselors are lecturing, right, I'm saying that that's how it's perceived sometimes. If we're just listening off a whole bunch of truth and they someone can feel like it's a lecture and that's usually not as well received in my experience, as when we ask a lot of questions. Yeah, asking questions help them to draw their own conclusion and if you ask the right questions based on truth, based on Biblical truth, they're going to hopefully come to the conclusion that is the biblical right. Yeah, inclusion, that certainly how you want to tailor your questions. Yeah. Well, one of the questions that you ask a lot for women going into the abortions in or in kind of the calling out scenario, but also in the one on one right, is what would God have you do? Yeah, what are you? What are you communicating in that where you're communicating. I mean it's a given. Of course. What would God have you do? He would have you to keep your baby, to protect your baby. Yeah, but you're not accusing them necessarily, right. You're putting it on them. What would God have you do? You're putting your planting that seed of like they need to steal on this and think on this. Rather than saying God would never have you kill your baby, you're saying what would God have you do? Right now, I'm more inclined to say God would never want you to go in there and take the life of your baby. That's what I'm more inclined to say. Yeah, but I do like that asking question. I've been the calling out or in the one on one I think it is harder to ask the questions because I also sometimes do say that God would never have any mother take the life of her child. I know I say that frequently, but I am more aware that if I if I phrase that instead as a question, it is less likely to ignite anger and defensiveness because it it feels to them I'm not accusing in a sense. Actually, probably sometimes I am, but it feels like an accusation. Yeah, and and whenever we accuse, that's going to they're going to be defensive. Yeah, we all are. We all are when we're when we're accused or think we're accused of something. Yeah. So, in addition to the asking questions, is in your responses, because they're going to answer and don't dismiss those responses. Yeah, expressing concern, compassion, you talk a lot about in our slide, showing our our training to show compassion. Yeah, and not fake compassion, true compassion. Rightly try, yeah, to understand from their perspective. Yeah, I know. I do want to say, just as we're touching on these things, yeah, that it doesn't matter and there's some scenarios and it doesn't matter how nice, how kind your tone is, it doesn't. I mean, I've seen people come over to grandmalls that are just they are praying on the sidewalk, not saying anything, but praying on the sidewalk. Ye, be confronted by some angry person. Your presence out there, I think this is an understanding we have to have, is your presence just standing there, like those women going in. Many of them feel the conviction, they feel the guilt, and that conviction. That guilt, obviously, is about their accountability before God. They know that they're accountable to God. They're angry with God, they're angry with themselves, and your presence there is a representation of the one with whom they're angry of God, right, like they know why you're there. They know that you know why that they're they're right there, there to kill their child. Yeah, and so just your presence being there brings guilt and sometimes guilt provokes this reaction of anger, right, rather than repentance, some people just get angry. Yeah, and again they blame God, they blame whoever else. Try to play the blame game. So I do want to say that as much of these principles as you apply. There's just some principles, but it doesn't always mean that you're going to be able to diffuse every situation. But I do think, again, that there are some principles and an understanding that we need to have. That's a good foundation and that is helpful for...

...diffusing angry people. At the abortion said yeah, that's a really good point, because we don't want anyone who has encountered an angry person that went south to feel like it was their fault. It's not. It's the angry person's fault. Yeah, nine times out of ten, but but yeah, these are these are things that might help from you know, once they're they've lost it, once they're filled with anger, it's sometimes really hard. Then it's then we switch into now what do we do to protect ourselves? Yeah, so a lot of these things are how can we prevent it from escalating in the first place? What are some of the things that we can do that will prevent it from becoming to an on fire level where now you got to call in the fire engine? Yeah, and I think daddy is these. First couple of things that we touched on, right, is that our tone can set the tone, and then expressing concern or asking questions first rather than just bringing accusatory statements right. And then if there isn't exchange there and it's getting heated, expressing concern, identifying, relating to that person. You know, it might be something to just kind of a scenario I've seen play out and I'm sure, I'm sure you have to. Let's say a mother is walking into the abortion center to take the life of her child and her mother, the grandmother the child that's going to die, comes marching over and she's angry and she's saying, don't you know, my daughter has been through this and been through that and all this other stuff. Right, as the mother of a daughter, likely in that age, your daughter is twenty some years old, right. Yeah, you can identify with her and say, you know, I have a daughter that's that's just like your daughter and she has struggles and I want to protect her and I appreciate the fact that you want to protect your daughter at that, to me is a good response, because you're identifying as a father. I gues. I have a twenty three year old daughter. I could identify with a man who's angry at me for addressing his daughter, pleading with her not take the life of her baby. I can say, man, I appreciate your zeal to protect your daughter. Man, I'm not here, yeah, to be your enemy. I'm here to offer help. Well, also, what you're doing, you are empathizing, but I think what you're doing another principle we talked about later on. It is you're bringing in something. These are people that are beaten down, or they wouldn't be there. There, you know, they, they they and they feel terrible. I know they do, whether they admitted or not. And what you've done is you've pointed out a positive and that's sometimes really hard to think of or defined when you're watching someone going to murder their child. Yeah, but you did in that example. That's a beautiful, perfect example, because that is often what happened. Someone is protecting their friend, their girlfriend, their child and that and not only is that a positive quality, but you can use that to promote your case. But that I'm born baby, you can say I love how you're protecting your your child, and I just pray that you would feel that same desire to protect your grandchild, because it's an admirable quality. Yeah, so that you can even further that you know your your agenda, which is really to save that child. But yeah, being being empathetic is really critical and something that I read when we briefly googled. How do you diffuse the situation? Make sure they feel heard. Yeah, offer reflective comments. So reflect back what they've just said. I know you're angry because you wish that we wouldn't point out that that abortion is taking an innocent child's life. Yeah, so don't even don't even need to say the butt that will follow. That just reflect they that they have been heard. That alone sometimes diffuses anger because so many people, I know, my anger erupts the most when I have expressed a concern and I feel like it's just been blown off, no one's listening and no one understands. So then another thing in that same article I read was wait until the person has released their frustration and explained to how they're feeling. Yeah, yeah, sometimes, to me and my experience that I don't know if it's the way the Lord is wired me or he just I think it's he's just giving me grace in these situations. But when someone comes out and they're just Raven mad at me, one of the things I've learned to do is just don't say anything. Yeah, just listen, don't respond, look at them as best I can conveil my face a look of compassion. Yeah, empathy. Yeah, you connecting with them on that level and just let them poured out right on me. Yeah, not because I deserve that or anything like that, but in reality I find my value, and I think this is an important point, don't take it personal, because I find my value in what God says in his word and what someone says about me that I don't even know, and they're because often times it is you're this, you're that, you're judging...

...people, all this other stuff. It's like, well, I could defend myself and say, no, I'm not judging people. Actually, the Bible says Blah, blah, Blah Blah. I can do that, I can go back and forth with them and all of that stuff, right, but in reality I find my value and what God says about me, not what they're saying about me. So I don't need to take it personal, because that's really when the situation gets even more escalated. It's when we start to respond, when someone comes at US and anger. Yeah, and we start to take it personal and get defensive and then we respond back in anger. Right, this is like, you know, fighting fire with fire. What happens? Yeah, the whole thing goes up in flames. Yeah, right. Yeah. So the Bible gives us a very, I think, a principle that everybody should have, which is a soft answer turns away wrath. Right, yeah, and that's a that's a biblical principle. I think every secular philosopher or psychologist or whatever in the universe would recognize this. Biblical principle is a truth that we all need to apply. That's solved. Answer Turns Away Wrath. When someone is angry at you, answering softly and then even sometimes keeping your mouth shut, right, is a good way to defuse them. Just let them vent their stuff. And, yeah, don't, don't poke the bar even more, right. Yeah, I think that that is probably the very single most effective thing, yeah, that we can do, and we talk about in our training that literally, put your hands up. Yes, though, in surrender, to take a step back, taking a step back. They're coming at you. Taking a step back is a step of humility, yeah, and not of cowardice, but of a peace maker. Yeah, I think so, take a step back, hands up and surrender and say I'm not your enemy, we're only here to help. I'm so sorry that it has so upset you. Yeah, something along those lines. Yeah, there is a sense in which in these situations, like I'm not trying to defend myself, but I'm trying to make explanation, when they're angry at me and they're coming at me, where I'll say something like listen, we're just here to offer help. Hey, I'm sorry, that what I said offended you. But I'm not trying to offend you, right. I'm just trying to share with you the help in the resources and I will kind of and maybe maybe rebuke me if you think I'm wrong in this, but I will kind of within our three talking points, what God says, the humanity, the baby in the resources. I'll kind of go right to the resource thing and I'll really hyper focus on that. Yeah, because what it does show is that we're here to help or not just here to state facts. We're not just here to, you know, talk about God and talk about your baby. We're here to help you, and I think it does help diffuse sometimes, because the way that they're able to fuel their anger and justify their anger against us is to say that all you're doing is, you know, judging people, all you're doing is saying things that are concerning the baby. But when I'm talking about resources, but I'm really showing them, no, that's not all we're here to do. We're actually here also to offer help. Yeah, and so it helps them and can even make them feel a little guilty because they've got these false notions of who we are. They've got these notions in their mind that we're that we're angry, and so they need to combat our our anger, in our rage against them with their anger and rage. And so they've come at at was come at us with that because that's what they heard from the abortion clinic. Right. I'm have had people that have come over angry after they had an exchange with the pro abortion people, you know, the the clinic escorts are quoting people and the probortion people that have an exchange with them, and they'll come at me angry because those people like fueled some kind of sparks, some kind of fire, or fueled some kind of fire that was there in these people's hearts already and really spurred them on too angry, extend angry, angry exchange with me. Yeah, and that's hard to diffuse. But then coming back and saying, actually, what they said about me is not true. Yeah, and here's how I can help it. That's how we can know. I think that's so much better. That is I think when they're storming at you, it is not the point to probably a most cases, start quoting scripture. Yeah, most greatest scripture is, I think, when someone is ready to pound you, letting them know I'm what the help is which and then another point is to say, look, we want to help you, but we don't know what you're at the issues are. Tell us, yeah, tell us what's going on. Let us so asking them the obstacles and and finding time to do that earlier rather than later. Yeah, so that they again it shows compassion, but it helps them. It helps them to see us in light of what we really are. were. They're offering help, we have angible resources. Yeah, we're not just judging. I don't believe we're judge. Yeah, I believe judging is is biblical, but if it's going...

...to just feel their anger, I'm not going to probably want to be talking about that. I think. I think your strategy is absolutely spot on. That's what that's what I think you should do. I mean one of the things we can put ourselves into position of doing we've got an angry, irrational person, yeah, is try to ration with an irrational perside. Try to rational. Try to be rational with an irrational person. Is Not is not going to we're typically not going to work. So there's like things that need to be said. Sometimes you need to keep your mouth shut again, right, sometimes you need to say things. They can help just in their minds, show them that you you care about them, yeah, that you want to identify with them. Yeah, because it's really hard to be angry at a person that you know cares about you. Right, right, something that I would say no sidewalk councilor should ever do, and I feel very strongly about this. You can correct me if you think I'm wrong. But but do it gently. Is We should never nick called names, never resort to name calling. I just think, and I have heard it, I do hear it. I'm on it. I've done it, like with an angry father. Yeah, and respond to him. Right, Colin mccaward? Yeah, yeah, and I understand that some of this name call it's true. I mean it's truth. Things that are true, and that's what I'll hear people the that do that often as a matter of course. And you do not do that as a matter of course. I've heard you. But Um, but if there are people that are doing that as a matter of course, I think they really have to examine their own level of anger, because name calling is not out of respect or gentleness or compassion. Yeah, and it I don't think it ever leads to promoting peace or a good conversation. Yeah, I think right away hackles are up, I am if someone calls me names, the last thing I want to do is try and talk reasonably with them. Yeah, I want to lash out. So I just think that that is something that everyone, all of us, are guilty of it at one point or another, and I think we need to really are examine our motives. Yeah, when that comes out of our mouth. And I've been thinking about that a lot because I was thinking, okay, Jesus did call some people names. Yeah, he did. Whitewashed Tomb, or was that Paul? No, she's that was Jesus. Okay, White, why, that's pretty nasty. You're a whitewash tomb. Yeah, I don't think that you can look at rude of snakes, Rudy, yeah, thanks, Judea Vipers, right, Yep, Yep, so he did. I think it was rare. I don't think that you could characterize Jesus as name calling. No, but it wasn't absent, and so that's why I think about it, because I think that there are cases where something is descriptive that that maybe would stop someone in their tracks, but I it's surely not the time to do it. It's when someone's about to, you know, plunge a knife in your chest. Yeah, and in the scenario, I think, as you read the scripture, when Jesus calls the Pharisees Whitewashed Tombs or snakes children, is not one of these scenarios where you've got an angry person in your face. Right, this is this is him really not for the sake of the Pharisees. I mean for in one sense, for their sake that he's pointing out their hypocrisy to them, but I think more so it's he's pointing out their hypocrisy to the crowd. Right, yes, people are whitewashed tombs, yeah, they're telling you to do things that they themselves don't do. Yeah, they're hypocrites, all these other things. And he really wasn't. The spirit of the motivation of it, obviously, was pure, because we're talking about Jesus, right, right, and so the motivation was not one of selfishness and self validation, because often times that's what can happen when we respond to an angry person in an angry way with some kind of accusation or name calling. Typically it flows out of a place of self validation. They just called you something, and so you want to call them something back, and so that something might actually be a sanctified something like, for example, fool. Right, you call them a fool when the Bible says clearly that in proverbs. All through proverbs, the Bible Call Certain People Fools. Well, we might sanctify it and listen to I'll speak from experience because I've done this myself. Yeah, well, I call someone a fool and I can justify it because biblically the Bible says people are fools. It despise God, that despise wisdom and understanding, and I'm trying to give wisdom and understanding their fool. Right. But if I examine my heart, yeah, the reality is I'm calling them a fool because they just called me something. They called me as good white supremacist, or they called me exactly you big it or right, whatever they need write names. I can't say on this podcast because I wouldn't say on this podcast. And so, yeah, we have...

...to examine our hearts, examine our motive and all, at the end of the day, what is our desire when we're speaking out in front of the abortion center? I think, above everything, like we said, often it's to glorify the Lord. Right, it's the glorify Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, so as you were talking, I was thinking, okay, that wasn't an angry situation when he was talking to the Pharisees. But I and that's I was thinking. Okay, when did Jesus meet angry mobs? Because he did. One's at times absolutely look at when the the whole crowd of the people ready to stone the woman caught an adultery. And how did Jesus respond? He asked questions. Yeah, he said, which of you is without sin? CAST THE FIRST STONE? Yeah, and that was a question. Again, not accusing, he's he's just he's asking a legitimate question. That made them all stop and think. Yeah. Or when he's led, but from the angry mob that comes to get him to take him to the crucifixion, How did he respond? Silence. Yeah, he he was like a lamb led to the slaughter and said not a word. Yeah. So I think those are I mean those are both kind of extreme situations and they're they're not necessarily like what we face at an abortion center, but I think it does show how we can respond in a godlike way to to anger to hopefully diffuse. Of course, says the he was being led to the cruise fixtion at hardly diffused the situation, but it with. In the case of the adopterswoman, it definitely did. They all left and no one stoned her, and that that mob was subdued. Yeah, by a question. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And there was a one point. I'm actually trying to look for the scripture here. You guys can dig for this is your this is your Bible Challenge. Okay, promise you would say in the scripture there's at one point where there was an angry mob that came after Jesus. This was before the crucifixion. This is in the midst of his teaching and all of this. Right, I think it was it after he the he made the pigs, the demon, to run into the pigs and the pains. Not The people came to stone him, him because they were so mad. Yeah, well, in that situation they told him to leave. They weren't coming to stone him. Okay, they were offended at his action. There's a lot of reasons why. I possibly so. I'm not talking about that story, but there's another story in which, and again don't quote me on this. This is, you, guys, Bible Trivi. I'm trying to look it up on my computer but I can't find exactly the scripture to them, but I'm talking about but I promise it's there. They came to make Jesus the king. Oh, right, and then he kind of, kind of not, he kind of turns it around. Yeah, and then they ultimately they want to kill him. Right. So the Bible says he actually slips out, yeah, from their midst. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't stand up on a rock and start just preaching at them and telling them how wicked and reprobated they are and all of this. He just he just slips, kind of melts away. And it seems like Jesus, and I think he gives us this principle as well in in our day and age, but also dealt with it in his day and age. It seems like when people are resistant to the truth, he'll sting him with some truth, little bit more truth maybe, and then if they're content to remain in their sin and be obstinate, he'll just let them remain in their sin and be obstinate. Right, yeah's we can find ourselves sometimes in a position where someone's angry with us, they're not listening to what we're saying, they're just angry and pouring out their anger on us, and we want to try to set them straight and want to try to stand our ground because we don't want to be perceived as cowards or cowardly. And and really, again, it can be prideful. Yeah, it's has been for me. Yeah, when in reality, like I said earlier, we just need to let God deal with them. That mean ultimately it's God that changes the heart. Yeah, yeah, scripture. The Lord helped me with this is some years ago, as I was reading through the book of proverbs. Proverbs is so chalk ful. The wisdom it is is the book of Wisdom. As a man, I know especially, we don't want to back away from a fight, right, and there is a sense in which even in Christian men there's just warrior spirit, right. That's the reason why I'm out there. One of the reasons why I'm out there is because children are dying, right, and I should stand as a man who loves Jesus. I should stand against that evil and I could. I should stand boldly, right, and anyone who's ever been on the sidewalk with me. If you would accuse me of not standing boldly, you're not you're not watching what's happening, because I I do stand boldly. I'm not saying that that to my own horn. Yeah, but I'm there speak of the truth's what we need to do. That's what every man should do. I'm not cowering down, I'm not cowering away from speaking the truth. Yeah, that abortion is murder. I'm not carrying away from the Gospel. I'm speaking all of that stuff right, and with that along that same vein, when someone's anger with me, especially if it's another man. Yeah, I want to stand firm, I want to stand bold, I want to speak back some truth to combat the lie that he's just spoken against me. Right, but the Bible says, and this is what the Lord struck me with, and proverbs chapter twenty, verse three, it says it's honorable...

...for a man to stop striving, since any any fool, can start a quarrel. Any fool cant, any fool coral. That gives you a whole different perception of when you're fighting, because act as a man. The thinking is that if I back down, then I'm going to be perceived as a coward and and the tendency can sometimes be a little over the top with that to when someone comes out, especially another man who's angry with me, for for me to want to stand my ground, if he says some kind of accusation against me, you're you're this, you're that, you're not this, you're not that, whatever their accusation, I want to come back with that, with some kind of scriptural truth to defend myself. Right. But this scripture, proverbs twenty verse three, tells me, and the thinking can be from a man's perspective, I don't know about you, from your perspective, that if I back down, then I'm a coward myself. Yeah, and there's sometimes that's what goes through my mind. But also sometimes what cloes through my mind is I'm charged by God to speak. I've got a spirit of truth and I kind of I just want to just keep pushing what I think I'm called to do. Yeah, so this scripture in my mind again it's like it be dishonorable for me to back away from night. Be Dishonorable for me not to tell that guy who's angry at me, even though he's taking his girlfriend and to kill his own child. He's angry at me for judging him or something like that. Be Dishonorable for me not to set him straight. But actually, the Bible says in proverbs twenty, verse three, it is honorable for a man to stop striving, since any fool can start a quarrel, any fool, doesn't matter how much biblical knowledge or how how little biblical knowledge you have. Doesn't matter how close to Jesus you are or how far away from Jesus you are. Any fool, any old fool, can start a quarrel. Anybody can start a fight. Yeah, so, yeah, the implication here is that in by can start a fight, but not just anybody can really back down from a fight. It really takes an honorable person. Yeah, regardless of what the world says. The world says you've got to stand for your honor and all this other stuff. If you want to stand for honor, stand for honor the way God says to and just back down. Yeah, that fight if again, we we have to be led by the Holy Spirit. There are times where I've stood and when I've had somebody accusing me of whatever it might be. Again, some angry person out there right where I have pushed back with some truth where I have gone a little bit back and forth with them, but there's been probably more times where I've said, you know, I'm not your enemy, I'm not here to argue with you, and I just leave it at that. Yeah, and I think that part of the ability to do that is to trust that God knows everything that's going on. He knows that person, he sees that person. You have planted seeds and now trust, just trust that God is going to take it from there or someone else will. It's not over and I think we, when we want to fight really hard. For me anyway, I feel like this is my last chance. I've got to do it now. I feel the urgency and sometimes I think that's just me. It's all me. I got to do it instead of let it's not my own battle. There's others that are going to battle. Yeah, for for the for if not for this child, for the soul of that person, and and there's God, and just trust that that he will bring the increase. He always does. Yes, always his battle in the end. Yeah. So yeah, I mean that that whole dynamic of weird just planting seeds in watering seeds, and goddess God's the one that's got to give the increase, not us. Yeah, like I literally can't take a plant and pull it out of the ground and make it grow more. Right, the same PRINSIPH I. I really can't go in someone's heart, yeah, from an angry person to a broken person, yeah, and change their heart. Yeah, ultimately it's God that does that. I've just got a plant and water seeds, and there's a point at which you can over water a seed. Yeah, you can do too much to a seed sometimes and end up killing the seed. Yeah, and so there comes a point where further argument or further discussion is not productive. Yeah, and that, you know, it takes discernment. If they're about to punch you in the nose, it's probably no longer productive. It's time to move on. And, of course, the pearls before swine, yeah, comes to mind as the perfect verse. Yeah, when that happened. I think this is a actually a major you're verse that we need to focus on when we're dealing with angry people and we're when we're dealing with nonreceptive people. Right, Jesus says, do not give what is holy to dogs. And we have the truth. We have the truth of God's word, of who God is, what God says about abortion, what he says about these moms and these babies. We've got this body of truth and we're trying to deliver that information and get them to come and talk with us and all of that. But if they're just not receptive, yeah, they become not I always have to give this coffee a caveat. We're...

...not talking that these women are dogs, that they don't have any value, that they're just swine, they're just pigs and we're just named calling. That's not what this is right. But what he's really talking about here is categories of people, and he's, of course talking to Jewish people, and they do think of gentiles and people that are not Jewish as dogs and as swine. So, I guess, Jesus and one sin is relating to the Jewish people like these these holy things that we have. And actually I think he's doing something that might be offensive to the to the Jewish leaders, is he's actually identifying them those who resistant to the truth. They think the gentiles are swine and dogs, but the Jews themselves who are rejecting him, the Jewish leaders, I would say specifically the Pharisees, are putting themselves right in line with these gentiles by not receiving the truth. But here's what Jesus says. He doesn't say if they're if they're not receiving what you're saying, then you need to call them dogs and swine. Right now. That's not his point, not a point. And now his point is, I think, to shut your mouth. Yeah, like, if they're not receptive, don't try. If the soil will not take the seed, don't try to push it down in there. Just say, okay, the soil is too hard, it's not ready for the seed. Yeah, and I think there's a bit of self preservation in this scripture, because I never noticed until you pointed that out. This is good. You should read this scripture. So that that, because I bet other people have missed that endpoint of that scripture like I did. Yeah, so we kind of have this idea don't give what's holy to dogs, don't throw your pearls before swine, and we kind of we kind of leave it there. Yeah, which the principle is don't speak the Gospel, speak the truth to people are just completely resistant. They're angry with you. Just don't do it right. But this next component, or they will trample them under feet. So that's terrible for the for the pearls right, right, and turn to tear you to pieces. So a little bit of self preservation in the scripture. Sometimes people turn and try to tear you to pieces because you've not applied this principle of not given what's holy to dogs and giving this these pearls, he's awesome, pearls of truth to swine, to people whose hearts are hardened, whose soil is not been tilled. You know, sometimes you just again need to leave in God's hands. Yeah, for for the sake of the pearls themselves, the truth, the precious trees of God's word, and then for your own sake so they don't come around and tear you up. A yeah, yeah, it's a that's a perfect verset, a great first that because also your time is very valuable, what you're doing out there, and if you're spending maybe not necessarily that they're angry, but you're spending a lot of time with with someone who just is not hearing it, then it's time sometimes to move on. Yeah, and to find those receptive hearts who will hear it? Yeah, when are our next point, was on our list of points we were going over, was it's a little bit controversial. We're not sure if it's good or bad. It sometimes can be both, and that's if violence has it's reached the point where, okay, threats, their people are making threats or there's direct violence, we train our people to pull out their phone and start video taking, but we know that sometimes people grab the phone, sometimes people sometimes it seems to escalated even further. Yeah, and and so I guess you do that with discernment. Yeah, one of the things that we do is we have a camera that set up that I have hidden. Yeah, yeah, because I think you do need to be videotape you on some level so that if something violent does happen, that person can be held accountable. Right, you can show that to the police. It's not just your word against theirs, but you actually have video of what happened. Yeah, so I think that's important. I think you always need to have a camera running. Now we talk about cameras and having a camera running, that it's better to be hidden rather than I know I've seen some people wear like a gopro on their chest. Yeah, I think if you do that you're really minimizing the interactions that you're going to have with the women going into the abortion center because they're they're there to hide their sin anyway. Yeah, and they're probably going to be less like that. I would not say probably. It's a definitely less likely to engage with you. Right, if you got a visible camera. Sure, so that's, you know, kind of a little bit of a different thought train there. We're talking about holding accountable people who are angry. Yeah, having a hidden camera listen. If you need to and you think it's going to be helpful to diffuse a situation, you could point say I got a camera right there, so you need to calm down. Right, you might get say that. Now they may run over and smash your camera, and there is that possibility, but it is it is really important if things do escalate and if you want to call a police, which you should if it escalates, if you don't have proofs, they're not going to do anything. Yeah, they have to have proof. Yeah, so what we're saying is, I think it's helpful to play your phone and star video and yeah, but also it's not like it's not necessarily going to be a hundred percent diffuse...

...a situation. Right, it's it could, in some scenarios actually escalated even more. Right. So, yeah, I guess you have to do the best you can to use discernment. Yeah, and you know, yeah, you're going to pull out your phone. Maybe be sneaky about it, right, have a team member shoe out of it. It should be. Maybe, if you've got a team out there, make sure maybe that all the team knows if they are is anything that looks like it's going to escalate, be sure that you've got your phone at the ready and do it. Kind of hide your phone, especially if you've had the experience of people grabbing your phone or being angry. Some some people are, some communities even are are more likely to be more angry. Yeah, depending on on where it is and who they are. So so we have not really experienced that, I would say. I would say in general what we see when we pull out a phone is d escalation. Yeah, but not every time, but most time. So I would probably air on pulling out my phone. Yeah, but if someone has had an experience where that too often leads to tanger than do it. Do it secretly. Have a team member do it secretly? Yeah. Yeah, so just kind of wrapping this up. We're at the end of this episode, right, and we don't think need to labor these points much longer. Soft answer turns away wrath. Yeah, that's the key to all of this. It's honorable for a man to stop striving. To back away from a fight is an honorable thing, not a dishonorable thing. Yeah, don't throw your pearls before swine R I will give these precious truth to people who are just resistant to him, right, because I're going to trample them underfoot and they're probably going to turn around and tear you up to it's going to come back on you. So that's these are some awesome biblical principles. Yeah, but there's some practical principles too, and I would say, just practically, if you are physically assaulted, even verbally thro threatened, then call the police. Yeah, that's an accountability peace. Yeah, that needs to be brought into play. You know, the Bible says in Romans Chapter Thirteen that the government is God's Minister of Justice, that the government should be employed to punish evil doers. If someone physically threatens you and physically assaults you, they need to be held accountable right, not just and we have to have an attitude of forgiveness. Absolutely we these are we know, I think, from experience, and just practically hurt people. Hurt people. So these people are hurt, there's some deep stuff going on. There's conviction, there's guilt they're feeling, there's all kinds of emotions and all that. Listen, we get it. Yeah, and we need to be understanding as far as that's concerned. We need to be forgiving as far as that's concerned. But if you let someone who is hurt, who's broken, lash out in anger, do something physically and you let him get away with it, don't be surprised if it's worst the next time. They lash out in anger and threaten you going in. Don't be surprised if they do something physical coming back out of the abortion. Say Yeah, so it's very important that you call the police and involve the police in this situation, explain to them clearly and again, if you have video, that's even more helpful. Yeah, and and so holding them accountable. I think with that practical tool is is really helpful, and I don't know what is legal in every area you would have to figure that out for yourself, and I don't know how I feel about this, Daniel, but just we don't want our missionaries, are sidewalk missionaries, to be sitting ducks. So what can you have on your person that is maybe gonna protect you in the case of of a dangerous person attacking you? And I may see in some places it's legal, pepper spray and so but you would have to find out what in your areas legal and what you're comfortable. Yeah, absolutely, to protect yourself. But I think if you're finding that violence is erupting in and whatever are you're in, I think that does need to be a consideration. Yeah, absolutely. Now I will say that pretty much across the board. I can't address as far as like pepper spray and all of that and your different areas. You'll have to you guys will have to look for that yourself. Right, but I do know that some folks can seal carry. They have a gun, yeah, and they carry that wherever they go in front of an abortion center. You can't do that, right. You can't do that, even though you might say, well, I have second amendment. Absolutely, you do understand that this is not a podcast about the constitution. I love the constitution. I believe in the Second Amendment. Yeah, however, there are laws on the books here North Carolina there are, and most every other stay their laws on the books that if you have a concealed carry permit, you can't carry in front of at a protest. And that's what they consider us, whether we like it or not. We're considered protesters at a medical facility and we do have as a policy as a ministry, Love Life has a policy that no one come to our prayer walks and when volunteering with us on the sidewalk or in a prayer walk or whatever, is going to be concealed carrying a gun right in...

...front of the abortion center. So that's something that if you're not under love life, I can't tell you what to do, but I'm just telling you it's illegal to do that. Yeah, and I think it could get in a situation where it dishonors the Lord because you know, the pro abort media are going to get ahold of it and, you know, put on the front page or wherever that pro life or had a gun in front of the abortion clinic or whatever. That's going to capitalize on that. So that situation it's just just don't carry your gun. I have a concealed carry permit. Yeah, I used to carry my gun everywhere I went, every scenario, just for Selfdefense, but mainly for the defense of others, right, but I don't car it anymore since I've been ministering full time on the sidewalks. I just don't carry it now. I should carry it in other scenarios, but I knew since I couldn't carry there, I kind of got out of habit, yeah, of carrying it. Yeah, and I think it's I think I'm safer on that end as far as you know, just being careful, not to be not to have the appearance of evil in any area. Yeah, to just not carried it all there. Yeah, so that's just something, some things to mention. I think there's a lot that we could say along these lines. Are some biblical principles. I would say get into the book of proverbs. Let God minister to your heart. But the book of proverbs and there's a lot in there about dealing with angry people. There's a lot about dealing with different all kinds of scenarios there in the book of proverbs. But with that I think we're going to wrap this thing up. Vicki's going to put an article out there along the lines of what we've talked about in this podcast. We know that that'll be a blessing to you guys. If you have suggestions for us for future podcast, we would love to hear what those suggestions are. You can reach out to me, Daniel, Love Life Dot Org. You can reach out to Vicky, Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. If you want to get trained to do sidewalk ministry, we'd love to get you in that vein to get trained to do that. So you can reach out to me again, as I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast. But until next time, God bless, God bless. Give me our love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious and some you.

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