Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode 153 · 1 month ago

Don’t Trust at Face Value

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This episode came out of a recent conversation that Vicky had with a mom that chose life months ago. In this episode, we discuss how to effectively share the Gospel with women who choose life and the fact that we can’t take it at face value if they say that they are a Christian.

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/ 

That was the big red flag. Yeah, I knew she was still living with the boyfriend. I understood it, I get why, but but it it's not the mark of someone with a life that has truly been changed. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours. And Me, Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry and always were the focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned, I felt show passish touch your heart. Use Me, Lord. Hey, they're welcome to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. I'm Vicky Kashi York. Yes, you are, I am, I was yesterday, I will be tomorrow. Well, my God's grace, you will right. And I'm Daniel Parks and we are blessed to bring you this episode of the Gospel Center Pro Life podcast. Yes, and I'm going to let Vicki kind of take the reins on this episode because this is from an experience that she had. This is not necessarily going to be like a case study. Maybe it is, I guess, but at least sharing some experiences. But what's kind of the focus of this episode? Right. The focus is that we have to be very careful about accepting at face value when someone claims to be a believer or claims that they have asked Jesus to be Lord of their life. Okay, and I think that we are quick to believe that because we desire it so much. YEA, or we want to maintain a relationship and we don't want to challenge when someone, and the someone's in this case, or a mom, who has chosen life. But when they when we've shared the Gospel with them, that they they said, Oh, I've already done that, I am a believer, and yet clearly they're living a life that doesn't reflect that. Right, and we want to believe them, but they're there's a such a big danger in believing them, and that danger is they're going to hell if it's if it's if they're believing that they are a believer, their life certainly doesn't reflect it, and you can find out by asking some questions that indeed they're not, but they believe they are. Yeah, then that becomes kind of our fault, that that these people then are not saved. We've fed into a false belief, a false security that they are saved. Yeah, there's a great message actually from Ray Comfort. HMM, we kind of plush right comfort. We love race UPFORT. Yeah, he's Great Guy. Yeah, he's evangelism, some method which I think is a biblical evangelism...

...method. Is really powerful, it is and it really kind of, I guess, keeps us out of the ditch of giving people a false sense of security. I think if you follow his framework faithfully, you are absolutely corrected to us. But he has a message called true and false conversion. I listened to it years ago. It's been a while since I listen to it. Maybe since we did this podcast episode, I should listen to it again just to reamin myself. But recomfort in his awesome fashion and really engaging fashion, as a funny guy. Just listening to him talking and preach, he's funny, but he also gets right to the point. Yeah, talking about true and false conversion and how we as believers have a vested interest in making sure we don't create false converts. Yeah, right, and how do we do that? We do that by sharing the Gospel and a biblical framework, not just saying Jesus loves you, so ask him into your heart, but really getting to into the issue of sin. We need to be talking about men and women's guilt before God because of our sin. Sin Is what separates us from God, Jesus and his death be own resurrection is the solution to the problem of sin. But we need to talk about sin, and so that's what Ray Comfort talks about in that true and false conversion message and it kind of ties right into the subject that we're covering here. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's such an important subject and what sparked this specifically was about a week ago, maybe two weeks ago, a mom who chose life, actually already had her baby contacted me and she she claimed to be a believer. She had a great story and I wanted to write about that story. That's that's how I ended up being connected with her. Okay, I can't remember if I was the counselor that first stopped her at the abortion center or not. I don't remember that part. But she already did have a mentor. She was love's. The Mentor said the mentor has been in any enormous help. They she's had a great baby shower. She she's had a lot of she's even in a Bible study and and she feels truly that the mentors a friend. So a lot of really great positives. But as we were talking, I just I was hearing red flags, okay, and by Red Flags I mean I was hearing things that made me really wonder, this doesn't sound like a believer to me. Okay, she was claiming to be, yeah, but there were so many things going on in her life and even as she's describing her concerns and relationship with God, that made me wonder is she and I really felt the Holy Spirit saying you need to clarify this, you really do need to confront this. Yeah, because I felt if she is a convert, she's a else convert, like I do not think...

...that she has a true saving relationship with God, based on what I was hearing. Okay, so, so the the first thing I did, and that what this I think, what the article I wrote and what I hope we can convey, is how do you deal with this? Yeah, because it will happen. It comes up. It comes up all the time that people claim to be a believer. Yeah, I've already asked. One of the products of American Christianity and kind of the easy believi ISM thing that just say a prayer or just if you breathe American air, somehow you're just automatically a Christian. If grandma was a Christian, you're automatically a Christian. Yeah, and some of it come. It comes with that. Yeah, I think the American Christianity mindset kind of kind of brings about this yeah, false convert understanding. This this reality that people are false converse, I guess I'm trying to say. Yeah, and you hear them say things like while I go to church, I read the Bible, I'm in a Bible study and it you just say, Oh, okay, well then you're a Christian. Well, that's really not right. That would be workspace here salvation. Actually, okay, you go to church, you do Bible Studies and that makes you a Christian. That's works based salvation and that is not what the Bible teachers. And that was the big red flag. Yeah, I knew she was still living with the boyfriend. I understood it. I get why, but but it it's not the mark of someone with a life that has truly been changed by Jesus. So and I asked, where would you go? That's the first thing. I think it. That's what Ray Comfort does, I think the very first thing to help you understand if if this is a true convert or not, ask them where they're going to go, right. I. When they die, when they die, where you going to go? Heaven or Hell? And she said Heaven, I hope. As soon as I hear heaven, I hope. Another red flag, right, we should know it. where, if we are truly submitting a life to the Lord, we should know where we're going. Yeah, and so she said I hope, and I said, okay, and why do you? Why do you think? But you think you are, you hope you are. Why? And then her answer was very work based. Right, and and instantly that's where I then go into the the Ray Comfort framework of first asking questions that expose sin in your life. But to begin the discussion always, always in the back of my mind, and I just as a cute to all of you that that maybe haven't done this a lot. It's uncomfortable at first, but to always pray for the Holy Spirit to open that door. Yeah, always does open the door for the discussion and then start asking questions, right, and that's the key to any like the countling sessions that we...

...do. One onone people at the abortion center, trying to convince them not to go any kill their baby. Asking questions as a key. Yeah, when you're sharing the Gospel, when you're trying to encourage another believer that struggling, asking questions. Jesus asked more questions than he gave statements. Yeah, I believe. Don't hold me to that a hundred percent. I was just going to ask you a lot of gas. He did ask a lot of questions and I we should maybe count that some day because it's great. I do believe it is the an absolute critical part of being a good counselor. Yeah, askout, but then, yes, I have to listen right to the answers. So listen carefully to the answers, because they're that was would cued me in her answers or what made me say and I don't think this person is a believer. I know she's going to Bible study and she's actually had discipleship, but it's not sounding like to me like she truly understands the the Gospel. So the the next question that that I think is a very telling question, is and and another counselor technique is reflect on what you've they've said and say it again in a different way. So you know, I said, so what you're telling me is you basically believe you're a good person. Yeah, and the good out, or the good outwaghs the bad. And she said yeah, that's what she was telling me. Well, then there's your open door to start sharing. Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen? Have you ever lusted after a man that you're not married to? A lot of people ask me how do I introduce the purity message, which in pretty much every case of dealing with women going to an abortion center, that needs to be introduced. That's the point at which I introduce it, right when I say have you ever lust it after a man you're not married to? And they always laugh, which she did, and said, well, yeah, I'm I'm actually, you know, I'm praying. I'm I had two babies, or maybe more with the boyfriend that I'm not married to. And then going into the law and what God says about sexual immorality. She knew, she knew, you know, and some of them will say I don't know. And their models are their parents did not model sexual purity outside of marriage. Most many of them, their parents were not married or the father's absence. So so, anyway, then she admitted no, she she knows it's wrong. Yeah, and but then we go on, we go through the list. She, of course, has broken every one of the commandments, as have most people. Yeah, and and then Ray Comfort always says, and I always say it too, ask the question, do you still think you're good? Right, still think you're a good person after all of this? You're lying, thieving, lustful adulter at heart, right, right. And she said No. And by then oftentimes they're like, you can tell, scared, grieving. Yeah, they realize.

You know, I talked about the penalty. Then this is the penalty, rights what the Bible says. This is your penalty. Does that concern you? And they always say yes, yeah, at that point. So then I go into Romans ten nine. I don't know if that's where ray comfort goes, but that's the verse I would I always go to, because in that verse, if you proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and Jesus is Lord, if there was a single statement that I would say false converts are not living. It's that right and really helping them to understand if Jesus is Lord, would you be doing this? This, this, right, so you've just admitted to me. I said to her that that you believe Jesus is Lord, but, and you've also said, living in sexual relationship with some of you're not married to is against God's clear commands. Is Jesus Lord of Your Life? Yeah, if you're doing that. And she said no, right. And then when I said the verse Romans Ten nine and said have you ever done this, she said no, she's never asked Jesus to be Lord. She didn't even know it was like something she should do. Yeah, wow, to which was surprising to me. Yeah, given that she is being discipled in a church and all, why she missed it? She must missed it. Yeah, it's easy for people to miss playing truth. It's easy. Certainly not pointing the finger wagon, the finger at the church, because I know for myself. I was in church for a couple of years, actually about three years in church pretty consistently and had the gospel proclaimed to me. I know that they talked about Romans ten nine and I just missed it. I just I didn't missed had never really what it was, as my mom set and everything to do with Christianity and religion was focused on me. Not until I had a like true encounter with my sin I might need for a savior, where someone actually loved me enough to lay down the plain truth that I am not good, yeah, and that I need to turn from US and to put my trust in Jesus. Not until that time when it was a really a one on one conversation. Yeah, that I really understood that I need to turn from sin. Yeah, yeah, turned to Jesus. That's great illustration of your own experience and to throw me under the bus a little. Yeah, I've shared the Gospel, I don't know, probably hundreds, if not thousands of times now since I've been out, you know, as a sidewalk counselor, and I always do, always with every single mom that I interact with, if I have an extended conversation many of them, early on in my sidewalk career, would then go on to have a baby shower with caryl chandler. Her Ministry is Truth...

...and mercy, truth and mercy pro life ministries. Yeah, she's throws great baby showers. She was who we used before love life and be and we're still using her, but we now we've really hopefully given that over to the Church as opposed to a ministry that does baby showers. Yeah, the Church has taken that over with the mentors, but at the time Cheryl did them, and Cheryl has a wonderful framework for her baby showers. She always, always shares the Gospel. Yeah, well, I had always shared the Gospel with these MOMS. Many of them had come to the Lord and I would tell Cheryl this mom is a believer, she is come to the Lord, and then we would go to Cheryl's baby shower, Cheryl would share the Gospel and the mom would would clearly not be a believer. Yeah, and I would feel so ashamed, but I shouldn't have. And so I think a really valid point for us, because I did it properly. Yeah, but sometimes it needs to be heard a few times before the truth truly transforms and Vix and that's okay sometimes. So when we hear those Red Flags, I think it's important that we do it again. Then, yeah, we'll share it again, like in your experience. You'd been in church, yeah, but you needed to hear it, maybe in a fresh way, with someone that truly dug into that. The truth of breaking God's law us and your own. Yes, and it's that same dynamic that we talk about often time, whether it be sidewalk counseling or sharing the Gospel, whatever we're doing. At the end of the day, all we can do is plant seeds and water seeds. We can also till the ground a little bit, right, yeah, take some of the weeds out. Yeah, using God's word, but God has to give the increase. They have to have an encounter with Jesus, the Holy Spirit has to move on their hearts to bring conviction and, of course, help them to understand their need for a savior. Yeah, and it does take a couple of times, right. We don't just water a garden one time before we see the increase. Right, you got a watered a couple times. You know, just put seeds in one time and you have a garden for the rest of your life. You got to keep putting seeds in. Yeah, and so that's what we're doing. We're putting seeds in. That's why we need to be intentional about sharing the Gospel, not ramming it down people's throat or, you know, anything like that. But when we're doing counseling car side or one on one on the sidewalk in front of the abortion center. Yeah, weaving the Gospel and we're getting them connected to a mentor on the phone after they've chosen life. We've in the Gospel and or whatever you we're ministering to them after they had the abortion. We've in the Gospel and we're doing a baby shower, weaving the Gospel into that. Yeah, Discipleship, weaving the Gospel, because if we keep kind of weaving the Gospel, that thread of the Gospel, through everything that we do, eventually, I believe the light bulb will come on it. Right. Yeah, even in it in follow up conversations, usually the sideball...

...councilors will have that and asking, and now I'm much more intentionable, intentional about that, asking them. So, how are you feeling? What has changed? Do you feel like a new creation in Christ? What is changed in your life? That that and and being more aware that that. Yet it does need nurturing. It just it isn't a oneandone kind of thing at at all. And in extending the invitation which you alluded to early on, and invitation to submit your life to the Lord, being sure it's not just a rote repetition. After you because that is speed after me. Yeah, I think. I think that is a very easy way to get a false convert. Yeah, make sure that it's coming from their heart and that they are expressing fully to God. Yeah, you know, and I do think there is a sense, because there are some folks that are really against giving invitation because it is the Holy Spirit that gives the increase. It's not some invitations, not some words that you say. It's the Holy Spirit that regenerates the heart. Right, but I do think that it's good to give an invitation. I do think it's good to you can only share so much, you can't go home forever and you need to wrap the conversation up at some point. And of course you'll see ray comfort do this when he talks about their need for a savior'll talk about sin. You know what God did so that you wouldn't have to go to hell, and of course he explains what God did Jesus and his death bearing resurrection, and then he'll ask so, when do you think you're going to do that? Right, when you when you think you're going to get right with God, when you think you're going to turn from your sin and put your trust in Jesus. Yeah, yeah, and so there is kind of like putting it on them. Hey, when are you going to get right with God? Not just leaving it out in the air. And you can do that by saying, would you like to pray, to acknowledge your sin before God and pray and ask Jesus to be your Lord Right here, right now? Would you like to do do that? You're not trying to pressure, you're not trying to do a sales pitch, you're not trying to put a notch on your belt, but you want them to genuinely come to grips with their their sin and their need for a savior. Yeah, and then, in front of another person, get right with God, right right that accountability. It's that there's just something about that. That confess with your mouth doesn't just happen between you and God privately. I think it can, but also it's a public profession. If you have a profession of faith in Jesus that you're not willing to give publicly, then is it really a profession? You know, I think it is so important. I think why? That's why Romans ten nine has professed with your mouth. Proclaim with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. You're to say it out loud, and I think that when a when women will sometimes tell me, no, I'm not ready, and I'll say I understand, that's that's fine. I would urge you not to wait too long. I would urge you to go explore this more. You never know when God's going to call...

...you home. Yeah, I hope that you would do it before that day. But but I think it is. I can tell when they they're almost always if they've never done that. They're almost always scared and embarrassed. Yeah, but and say, Oh, I've never done that. I I don't know if I could do that. Let's say. It's all right, doesn't have to be fancy. You're talking to your Heavenly Daddy. Yeah, just talk to him like you would to your your dad. He is your dad. He and he he loves you. And and usually I will start a prayer and then I'll say, okay, your turn. I literally say that, okay, it's your turnout. Yeah, and and then there will usually be a couple of moments of silence because they just don't know what to say. But when they start speaking it it you can tell if this is sincere right and that their heart truly is at least at a beginning stage of really understanding, yeah, what what the Gospel truly means for them personally. Yeah, that's good. So never, never, trust. Was the name of the working title of my of my article was don't trust women, kind of a play on we don't trust women. Well, we do trust women. I think we trust women more than the socalled pro choice people, because they are never offering the choice of life. They're only offering the choice that the woman thinks is the only choice they have, which is death. But never trusted face value. Yeah, it's really the bottom line. Don't trust it at face value if someone claims to be following the Lord when it's pretty clear that no, they're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good stuff. Hope this was blessing to you, guys. Hope this taught you, guys something. We always like to take from our experiences and help you, guys to see how you can add some of these things your ministry and just see people really truly come to the Lord. And we invite you, guys, as we do often, to share this podcast with others. Invite others to take advantage of this podcast, get trained and equipped to do sidewalk outreach effectively, to share the gospel effectively add the abortion centers and to these MOMS and Dads thatchose life. We also invite you guys, to reach out to us. You can reach out to me, Daniel I love life dot Org. You reach her, Vicki, with a why at Love Life Dot Org. We'd love to hear from you for suggestions of future podcast episodes. Maybe some suggestions or comments about this particular episodes, some things you would like for us to know? Whatever, we'd love to hear from you, but until next time, God bless, godless you all. Our love for love. Give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my love. Nothing's too precious in some no,.

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