Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode 149 · 1 month ago

Should We Use The Word Murder To Describe Abortion?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We should all agree that abortion is murder. However, how we convey this truth to those we minister to at the abortion centers is important. In this episode, we talk about the importance of shining the light of truth and some Biblical principles on how to do that graciously. 

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/

You can yell all you want, you can use all the words you want, if the holy, Holy Spirit doesn't convict that woman and she doesn't respond to the conviction, she's going to walk in there and kill her child. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center Pro Life Podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt show passish, touch your heart. Use Me. Welcome back to the Gospel Centered Prolife podcast. Appreciate you guys joining us. My name is Daniel Parks. I serve as the West Coast Regional Shepherd for love life. Actually am located here in Charlotte, though, and I'm joined as always, about Vicki Cassi Org. Hey everyone, and Vicky Cassi Org is our director of sidewalk training now, so she does a lot of training people, actually nationally. She's taking several trips around the country and probably will take quite a few more and helping the sidewalk teams get more healthy and just given some tips and encouragement to those who are serving on the sidewalks in our various cities under love life. We produce this podcast for you guys, our love life teams, but also for others who are maybe not a part of of life but are involved in sidewalk out reach ministry. We do this to encourage you guys, to give you some principles, some tips, some scripture. We want to be based in the Gospel. We are based in the Gospel and the word of God and just take some of what we have learned and so it into you, guess. We hope that this podcast does that for you, guess. So introduce our topic real quick, Viki. Well, in in short, it's whether we should use the word murder or not, okay, and how to use the word murder if we decide we should, while...

...we're on the sidewalk of a of an abortion center. There are so many differing opinions on this and people often feel very strongly about this sure whether they should use that word or not. So I really thought we should address it head on. Yeah, because I think our heart as a ministry is to encourage women to engage with us, to talk with us, and so what we do there, the words we use the the things we say, our demeanor, our tone are really all directed towards bringing the woman to come and talk with us. Yeah, and there are definitely things that we have observed over the many years we've done this that decrease the likelihood that the woman is going to come talk with us. We want to share the Gospel, we want to ultimately hopefully be used to save that child's life, the unborn baby's life, and if the woman isn't willing to engage with us, we think it's less likely they're going to make a choice for life and make a choice that will allow them to continue talking with us where we can really express the truth of the Gospel in its fullness. Yeah, and this kind of speaks to this dynamic that I spoke about some time ago, I've probably touched right a couple of times, and that we're not just out there to deliver information, but we're out there to start a conversation. We're not out there appealing to the powers that be. That's why we often say that sidewalk out reaches not protesting. We're not picketing abortion centers. We're not protesting at abortion centers. Protesting and picketing are not wrong, they're not bad, but protesting and picketing is appealing to the powers that be, kind of the larger public. This is wrong. We should do something about it. I can see that happening, you know, in front of a front of the Supreme Court or whatever. Right, right, and it certainly could happen in front of an...

...abortion center. But it's just to me not the best mode of operation there, because we're not just there to appeal to the powers that be. Were there to appeal to those individual mothers. We do want to deliver information, right, but it's not just delivering information, not just putting out kind of oneliner phrases, even though oneliner phrases are good. We train people to do that, right, but those oneliner phrases should be to the end. The end result would be to have a conversation with that mom not just deliver information to her. Right now, I think we have to start, because we are biblically based. Like we don't I'm not just looking to please the women going into the abortion center. I'm not just looking to please people that are looking in our ministry to thank you guys, say mean things or whatever. I want to please the Lord. I want to honored, Yesus and everything that I do. And so, you know, looking at the idea of abortion being murder, is his abortion murder biblically speaking, and I think we'll get two more in depth of should we use the word murder in this context? I'll just say right right away. Murder is what it's taking an innocent human life, the intentional taking, with premeditation of an innocent human life with knowledge. Okay, so we first have to establish, hopefully won't have to labor long on this, right. Is that child inside the women innocent human life? Yeah, of course, as far as you know, the most innocent of human life that there is. They have not had a chance to yet send. Yeah, yeah, so these are human beings. The Bible tells us God formed us in our mother's wombs one hundred thirty nine. Bible tells us in Jeremiah, chapter one, Verse Five, before I formed you, a new you. So God knows us even before he formed us. God formed us. He acknowledges the humanity of the preborn. Right in the word of God there's an acknowledgement very consistently of the humanity of the preborn.

This idea is and I've heard it, maybe a little bit more recently than in the past, but this idea that the Bible doesn't say anything about children in the womb, that the Bible doesn't give any value. The Bible actually teaches that we aren't human beings until we breathe our first breath. That's such a bunk idea. We did a podcast about that. Right for every quickly and easily disputed by the Bible of yours. So I don't think we have to rehash that, but we do have to establish the fact that, yes, abortion is is murder, right. Yeah, it's taking the inscent life of a human being and maybe, more specifically, like I think the Webster Dictionary, is taking an innocent life by malice of four thoughts. So you have malice. It's not an accidental thing. Yeah, and it was premeditated, was thought out. That's right. And is that what abortion is? Yeah, yeah, and you know, I would absolutely agree. And yes, it is there. There's no doubt in my mind that abortion is murder of an innocent human being. Yeah. Now, let me say this too, and this could I'm not going to rabbit trail on this, but this is something to think about, because murder, according to the word of God, like God's Word is the standard. Right, the laws of man should not seek to take the word of God and bring them on their level. Right. The Laws of Man, which were originally the way this this country was kind of framed, is to be based on the laws of God. Right. Unfortunately, we've taken the law of God and try to bring it down to our level and we've taken the laws of man and try to bring them above God's God's Word and God's truth. Yeah, currently, in these United States of America, and I know we're looking at on the verge of maybe rovy Wade being overturned or whatever. I'm not going to get into all of that, but currently we don't view as a nation abortion as murder. MMM, we think that it's we have said it's in essence as a nation...

...that these human beings inside the womb with they're not actually human beings, they're just, you know, blobs of tissue, clumps, the cells there beholding to their mother whatever she decides as well. They have no rights and and other themselves. Yeah, so is abortion murder? Well, in a sense no in these United States, but it should be. Yeah, in God's word it clearly is murder. Yeah, God's word, we're going to stand before him and give an account for what he says, for his standard and US violating his standard, not a standard that we set for ourselves. Right, yeah, so I just want to make that clear. Yeah. Now, of course, this conversation that we're having in this podcast is not really that of it. Just want to set that stage. We're more talking about and from in front of the abortion centers. Should we say, don't murder your baby, right, right, yea kind of sad. That's basically it. Or were even a bit stronger. Well, look good. Bit Stronger would be to say you murderer. Yeah, or to wear this happened recently where there were a couple of groups out there that we're not with us, but and they were definitely prolife, but they were wearing shirts that said murder with bloody babies on them, and they were and they were calling out about these people would burn in hell and that they would because they were murdering their child. And the the anger and the noise and the shouting match that went on became so aggressive and loud that we were unable to call out to the women about hope or help that might help them to choose their mind. So that was a lot of what sparked this this podcast. But just what you said, we know God's Word is is pretty clear about the unborn. It is a human being with rights and value before God, biblically, because God created that child in his image. So we know that. And and the it he hates, the hands that shed in a SIM blood. We know...

...that God would not have a mother do this. Right. But going to the Bible also then, for how you deal with someone in sin, I think is very valuable and I was I was thinking about how does Jesus approach sin? Yeah, and he approaches it in different ways with different people. But I in my reading of the Bible, the times when he is harshest and must angry is when there's a heart that basically he knows it's so hard it's not going to change. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, but you know the Pharisees or the people that he calls names are, and Paul as well, that when there's name calling, it's too such a hard heart that they they know, God knows, Jesus knows at least that person is steeped in their sense to a degree. Thinking about name calling. We're talking about you brute of vipers. Right makes dry. Yeah, sons of your father the devil. Yeah, I mean pretty pretty harsh language. He reserves that, though, for those that he knows are an it. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but do any of those people that he addresses in that way ever change their heart? I mean, we don't know. We don't know you direct like the Pharisees repented because I called them right route of vipers. I do believe that they're likely some of the Pharisees that were involved in rejecting and ultimately crucifying Jesus. That maybe the book of acts came to know the Lord because Jesus, or Peter Says at one point this Christ him. You crucified. God has made both Lord and Christ, and you know they Bible says they were cut to the heart and said what must we do to be saved? Yeah, so, without being into a big kind of priscussion about that, likely, but the point is those who are in pride, arrogance and obstinates against God. He has no problem with Jesus.

Had No problem with you brutal vipers, you murders, you snake's children. Are He that? Yeah, that was his right kind of mode of operation, right, concerning them, but it was only, it was usually, or maybe only in the response of that kind of an attitude. Yeah, but in the generally when he confronted sin, it was very direct. Yeah, but it was not what I would call confrontational. And the the example that I saw was in John for I happen to be doing a Bible study that that was talking about the woman at the well, and I read that story many times and and I'm reading looking for how does Jesus respond to what looks like a clear sin? Yeah, he never really responds directly confronting that sin. Yeah. So this is the story of the woman at the whale. Rightly know? Yeah, and we know from that story, in that interaction that she had with Jesus, that she said good, call your husband and she said, I don't have a husband. I'm paraphrasing, and of course he calls her out. Hey, yeah, we know that the or I know that the guy that you're with is not your husband, right, that so that's adultery or fornication, and you've had five husbands, which again is if elation of God's law. He doesn't call her an adulter, right, he doesn't call her a fornicator, he doesn't call her anything. He doesn't even he just makes that statement and then moves on. Yeah, and and I was thinking why, why doesn't he blast her with convicting versus? And instead he in essence applauds or honesty in saying, you know that she...

...currently doesn't have a husband. And the all he he doesn't even say sin. No more like he does in other passages. He did. He doesn't. And and I'm thinking, well, why? I read a few commentaries on why. I'm not going to go into those, but but I started looking at the result. What was the result? She is still questioning, she says, could this be the Messiah? So it's not like she's totally convinced. I don't think not with that kind of language. Could this be the Messiah? He knew everything about me. But she goes and she tells others the Tash. Her testimony is so convicting that the townspeople go find him and it says many are saved. Yeah, as a result of what sounds like kind of a questioning faith, but at least a beginning sense that he might be who he says he is. Yeah, and and she's in in essence, becomes one of the first Advan less, right. Yeah. So kind of springboard off of this story and maybe get a little more in depth and kind of glean some principles for our context. Yeah, let's remember that this story is one of Jesus having a one on one conversation. Paid. He's not calling out across a parking lot, right, yeah, he's not. He's not kind of street preaching to a whole village, yeah, of people. He's having a oneonone conversation. Yeah, and and certainly could. He could in this situation, say you're an adulter. His perception, though, was that her heart was soft. That's at least the way I'm reading it. He was very relational with her. Yep, again, he could have called on her an adulter, because she was, but he didn't. And but notice what he does do. He perceives her humility and her reception of his of what he was saying, and kind of look at it. So he does spell out her sin and her need very clearly here. As...

...he talks about water. You know, yes, says, you come seeking this water, but I have water that he who drinks of it will never thirst again. So he's comparing really himself to what she's so she has had five husbands and now she's with a guy she's not married to. He's seeking something. Yeah, she's seeking water. Air Quotes Right. Yeah, Jesus is saying, in a sense, you're seeking water, you're seeking fulfillment with men, but understand that the water that I have the fulfillment, because that's the symbol, the symbolism. We need water, we need this fulfillment of water in our lives. The water you've been seeking after with these men is never going to feel you, but the water that I give, that water will you, will quench your thirsty and you'll never be thirsty again. So, yeah, he is confronting her sin, he is confronting her pursuit of Sin, but he's also showing her actually, there there's another option. You don't have to continue to pursue sin, and I think we can do that too. Now we do have to be careful because you can say, well, you know, there are women coming to the abortion center who are prideful and arrogant, and certainly there are, and so our response could be, as they're walking in I don't want your eff and help. You know, we've heard it right. I don't want you guys are out here judging people. You get, you know, you got the hard hearts that come across. It's very phariseeical M and so we could say, well, since Jesus called the Pharisees a Brood of Vipers, then now I can call out back across the parking lot to a young lady who's hardhearted and say, well, you're a filthy murderer, right, and you could be perfectly justified. Well, can and maybe you're going to make this point, but can I just entercede that that there is a difference between Jesus and his knowledge of the human heart and us and our ability to truly see, because in those situations, invariably those really angry people, if you can get into a conversation with them and break through their defensive is, they oftentimes are the ones that are most...

...hurting and you're able to really change. Not Not you, the Holy Spirit is able to change and and and bring that conversation to a much better place. Yeah, yeah, the reality is, of course we don't know human hearts. That's right. Jesus does, right, yeah, but even if we were to know their kind of full scope of their hearts, and there I'm sure there are people that come in that are just as obstinate and just as wicked as the Pharisees going into the boys, I'm sure. Yeah. The reality is, though, we have to contend with the fact that there are others who are humbled, who, in their same state that that, are listening to what we're saying. And so if we call it out across the parking lot, maybe very justifiably, you're a murderer. Maybe we could do that justifiably because they're in a pharisee of kind of mindset. We're kind of putting the Kabbash, if I could use a technical term, on the other conversations that we might otherwise have of those who were sitting in their cars, those you are watching the situation. So we do want to make sure that what we come across as with our words, with our body language, we talk about this a lot, with our facial expressions, as inviting. We don't want to shut down conversations that are happening or that would happen, and so I do think we need to be careful not to come across. Certainly listen. What we're doing is confrontational enough. Standing in front of a place where children are dying, pleading with people not to kill their children, shutting the light of WHO Jesus is at the darkest place in our city. It's confrontational. The Christians life is a confrontational life. It's a confrontation with darkness. Right, when you live your life for Jesus, shining the light of who he is, you're in confrontation constantly. But we don't need to be unnecessarily confrontational. We don't need to be over the top. If we examine our hearts, a lot of times when we respond in anger or we...

...respond to what we think is maybe this righteous indignation, the reality is we're responding out of angst. Will responding out of anger and we're responding out of almost kind of like defending ourselves right. We just can't do that. MMMM. We have to respond out of love, out of kindness, out of truth. Right, the standard of truth is God's word. We got US respond out of that. But we're not out there to let everybody know how right we are. Right, out there to let them know that there's one like in this story, who can give them a drink of water. Yeah, that if they'll take of that water, they'll never thirst again. Yeah, and we want to draw them to us so that that that we can have that conversation. But as I was thinking about it further, because there are Zillions of examples where I've seen someone on the sidewalk very confrontational with the women and it just turns into a shouting match and and nothing happens, nothing good happens, as opposed to a counselor who is trying to relate and trying and showing compassion to the women and hearing her that it can d escalate and and then more is than there is a true conversation that's going to happen. And I was thinking it is not unlike crisis intervention, what we do out on the sidewalk. We are the women are in crisis and we are there to try and help them out of that crisis. The crisis is there about to kill her baby and that is a something we don't want to to happen. And so I started looking up and studying. What do people who study and do crisis intervention? What do they do? And I came across a really great article, which we do link that article in the article that I wrote about this podcast. But it says the goal of crisis intervention is to d escalate and in a sense that is our goal right one of our goals...

...out there. We don't want tensions to rise. These women are in crisis, the tensions are high and as soon as that that, if the tensions are, you know, by our actions or words, are risen, are raised to an even greater level, we're going to lose the opportunity to intervene because they're going to rush in that we have just increased the crisis in their heart. So the goal is of a crisis intercessor is to descalate and they gave some tips in this article that we're so I thought helpful as a sidewalk counselor. The first one was foster support. Let these women feel that they are supported, not in their decision to kill, but in just in the fact there is someone who is here that cares about you and is willing to to be there for you to help you work through this crisis. And if they feel that support, like someone that's about to jump off a bridge, if there's someone that is fostering the idea that there is someone here for them, someone to support them. It leads to a better outcome. Okay, focus on resolution, of solving the problem underlying the crisis, and that's something that if you're just shouting you're about to murder your baby, that's actually the result of the crisis, but it is not looking at what caused the crisis and your focus is not on that. Did does that make sense? Yeah, so, so one of the things they said that helps to focus on resolution building that person self image and self confidence, their image. That woman right now has lost the image of herself as a God. Bear it bearing...

...the image of God and given the beautiful role as a mother and protector of her child. Yeah, that's her real self. That should be herself image. So fostering confidence in that image somehow is would be the role in crisis intervention. One of the things that really spoke to me for a Christ someone trained in crisis intervention should take a less authoritative, less controlling, less confrontational approach, and you actually will have more control over the situation. Okay, so you're not shutting it down before it even starts, right, you're able to keep the conversation going in, the interaction going, because you're not coming across as being overbearing and an and a jerk. That's right. One of the worst things in any relation is if you turn into a shouting match. Yeah, and then what becomes the issue is not the issue anymore, it's your anger, and that can happen in front of an abortion center. Yes, well, so. So you're trying to give the person a sense of that he or she is in control, because right now she feels out of control and she's doing what to her feels like the easiest solution in someone jumping off the bridge. It's jumping off the bridge. Yeah, and so you want to give them a sense of control. You don't have to jump off the bridge. There are other options available, which I think feeds right into what we do out on the sidewalk. The model of intervention they in this article was called the calf model. Calm, assess and facilitate. Again, I thought that was great. Calm to decrease the emotional level, because it's at a heightened level in front of an abortion center. So calm, assess, determine what would be the most appropriate response when you know the facts. Well, you're not going to know the facts unless you've been able to get them to come and talk with you and then facilitate promote the most appropriate resolution...

...based on those facts. We of course, know the most appropriate resolution is saving that child's life, right, but also providing the help right to save that child's life that woman needs. That's right. Yeah. So, I mean I think that these principles, I think they're all they're all great and they all are applicable to what we're dealing with when we're dealing with women going into the abortion center. Yeah, kind of to sum this up, we need to just let the Lord do his thing. US be vessels of the Lord to speak to their hearts. Yeah, and kind of just slow down. We don't need to just speak out of our own anger or own angster, own like kind of disapproval of what that woman is doing. We need to like, you can yell all you want, you can use all the words you want, if the Holy Holy Spirit doesn't convict that woman and she doesn't respond to the conviction, she's going to walk in there and kill her child. Yeah. Um, and so there's a scripture here that I thought that I would share that I think has to do with this speaks directly to this and potentially to any not just using the word murder. I think we're using. Should we use the word murder as a springboard for just how we should operate right, how we should come across? Yes, and so here in Second Timothy Chapter Two, I've read the scripture before, but I think it's a good one to fresh, to ponder, think, to meditate on in light of the ministry that we do, since it is a pretty confrontational and intense ministry. And it says here in Verse Twenty Four of Second Timothy Chapter Two, and a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient in humility, correck correcting those who are in opposition, if God, perhaps, will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth and then they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his...

...will. So this speaks of being gentle yeah able to teach these sometimes, these moments, even when we're dealing with angry women walking into the abortion center, angry men walking their girlfriend into the abortion center, sitting in the bargain lot. We're that's a teaching moment actually for them. We can teach them what God's word says. We can teach them the value of their little baby. We can teach them that God should be their refuge and strength, not abortion. There's a lot of things that we can teach them. Yeah, and it says in humility, correcting those who are in opposition. We have to take a posture of humility. The Bible says God resists the proud, but he gives grace to the humble, and so if we would humble ourselves, he would give us grace to be able to answer these folks. And it says that we want to be able to answer them and we want to be able to correct them. We should be correcting false understandings, which should be correcting the idea that it's not a baby, it's just a blob of tissue or a clump of cells. We should be correcting the idea that abortion is is a moral good rather than a moral evil right. We should be correcting that. Yeah, but ultimately it says if God perhaps will grant them repentance. So God's going to be the one that grants repentance. Not Us again, not US using the word murder to help them understand they're murdering their child. Not Us. You not using the word murder? I'm not. You know, I'm kind of like we got to rely on the Lord, right, we got to rely on him to do the work in their hearts. But we do have within this scripture a framework to just stay calm speak the truth. Can you say abortion is murder to a woman to walk it into the abortion centre? Yeah, you can. I do, but it's not going to be the first thing that I say. It's not going to be the first thing that comes out of my mouth and I'm probably not going to say it across the parking lot. Yeah, I'm probably in more of a one on one context. I will say your child is an innocent human being. Taking an instant him in life is murder. You know that abortion...

...is murder. You're going to be murdering your innocent baby. So I don't think it's wrong to say that. I don't think it's incorrect to say that, but I do think that we need to be careful in the way that we come across so that we're not shutting the conversations down immediately. Before they even start, and the words that we say don't come out of just I want to say this because I'm correct or whatever like. We have to come from a posture of humility and again allow the Lord to do his work in their hearts. Yeah, I think that's really well set and I think that is the main point. And and I will usually tone down those confrontational words, especially as I'm trying to draw them out to talk with me. So it's something for everyone to consider, because I know, I I do recognize what you said. It's absolutely true and I recognize there are people that really, really feel strongly they must use that word. But I hope that this will help you to consider in one context and when to be seeing those, those more anger producing kinds of words. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I'll just end with this. When you yell across the Parking Lot, don't go in there and murder your child, you can be you can be technically correct, but relationally wrong. Yeah, they're there are correct words that you can use, but relationally wrong. And in that context you're not just delivering information, but you're giving an accusation. Yeah, you're basically the point in the finger and saying you're a murder, you're involved in murder. Yeah, we've got to give again the Holy Spirit space to bring that conviction to them, to convince them, and that normally happens in a one on one conversation with them. So, yeah, I want to have those conversations. We don't want to shut them down. So we hope that this was an encouragement to you, guys. We hope that you will consider what we have to say here. We'd love to hear your feedback on this. Maybe have something, maybe have some pushback on this. And you think maybe we should say murder every time? We're probably going to get pushback on this. Just...

...learning. Yeah, I would love to hear some pushback on this. I don't claim to have it all figured out right. Vicky doesn't claim I have now figured out doing the best we can with what we see in God's word and what we've experienced out there on the sidewalk. So yeah, we'd love to hear from you, guys. You can reach me, Daniel at Love Life Dot Org. You reach her, Vicki, with a why at Love Life Dot Org. We'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear just ideas for future podcast episodes and we'd love for you guys to leave us a review. If you could leave us a review on either apple podcasts or any other podcast service that you use, sure it would be helpful for us to get up in the ratings and get this podcast shared with other people. But until next time, God bless God, bless y'all. Love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know well will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious since I met you,.

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