Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode 5 · 2 years ago

New To The Pro-Life Movement - Interview with Justin Reeder of Love Life

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Justin Reeder, founder of Love Life, is rather new to the prolife movement. He shares his heart and how the Lord called him to lay aside his plans to lead a prayer movement at local abortion clinics. 

www.lovelife.org 

www.sidewalks4life.com 

www.charlotte.cities4life.com 

 

I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me, Lord, I am yours. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast and this episode we're going to interview justin reader, founder of Love Life Charlotte. He's going to share his heart and how he got involved in the pro life movement. Stay tuned, Lord, I felt show passish touch your heart. Welcome to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. Justin reader is the founder of Love Life Charlotte, which is a ministry that does prayer walks at the local abortion clinics here and then. The Lord is really just open up the door for for all around our state and Raleigh, now in Greensboro and now ultimately in New York, and we might talk a little bit about this about that as we kind of progress. But yeah, just introduce yourself real quick. Again, I introduce you, but introduce yourself. Sometimes it's better for people to hear from yeah, sure, just an ordinary guy married to a beautiful bribe Jennifer reader. Have three kids, five year old, of four year old and a nine month old. Business guy here in the city's had a business for about fourteen years, originally from south Florida, but kind of what started this whole thing was in two thousand and twelve and I had some people invite me out to the abortion clinic and, yeah, really disrupted my journey. Then we launched love life in two thousand and sixteen. Yeah, I'm want to jump right in that because that's sort of why I wanted to talk with you, not because you're like this big pro life leader, so to speak, or like you know, you've been in this battle for a long time. Your Business Guy, right, you're just a business guy, going about your business, making some money. Yep, sewing into the kingdom, right, your believer, you love Jesus, and then some guys invite you out to an abortion clinic, and that's you know, a lot of people, I think, all Christians. We actually had a podcast last week, the men Vicki did, about can you be pro choice and a Christian? Yeah, that's like we came to inclusion that you can't. You can't be for abortion and a Christian. And so we you know, we know that Christians just in general would tend to be pro life, at least politically aligned with prolife things, and so most of us think, yeah, if somebody asses your pro life, you to said, yeah, right before you came to an abortion clinic. Yeah, I mean that was a camp I was in. I mean, I definitely would have told everybody else pro life. Yeah, you know, but for whatever reason, man, I just I didn't really think about it that much. I didn't really think, you know, that it was happening in the scale, in the magnatude, that was happening in my city. But it's when it I came face to face with it is when everything change and I related to the story of actually David and Golife, right, like David was just delivering pizza to his brother's. Yeah, right, it's what I call. He's bread and cheese. He's delivering pigs baggie tales, right, yeah, veggietales, right, if watching all that lately. But he's just delivering pizza to his brother's, being obedient to his earthly father. And why he's out doing that? He sees a giant. Yeah, he's a stronghold. It's I was just kind of about my business, you know, again, growing a business, raising a family,...

...but my journey got interrupted when I got this invitation to come out here to the abortion clinic. Yeah, and when I saw this giant in our city. My heart, of course, broke over my own lack of action. I was convicted of that. I knew that needed to change. But my mind is started going to places immediately like and I know there's so many churches here in the city. I know I belong to a great church. I believe they would want to be involved with something like this. If they really saw what I saw, I believe their heart would break. Yeah, and so you know, the Lord just started seating some things from the very first time out here. Yeah, so one of the focuses for this podcast and again, one of the reasons why I want to talk to you is because you're just like this, you know, the business guy you didn't go to, you know, formal training, is a pastor or ministry leader, and neither to die. But you know, God gets us and and and it's kind of sets us up right and in these situations, that's how the Lord set me up as I came out to an abortion clinic with a children's group at the abortion clinic on Hebron streets in the Lord get a hold of my heart. Yeah, and so you've been in this fight for I mean, yeah, you've been pro life, but as far as like really in the thick of this spiritual battle, that is, the the pro life issue, the the abortion battle, and you got in because someone brought you out to an abortion that it was actually the Benham so, but to really get into the thick of this thing and a really jump all in like you've done, like what does it taken in a person's mind? You shared some of that how God got a hold of your heart, but where they're like things in your mind that you're like, I don't know if I mean, you know, our my heart is always or not always, but I give my heart to the Lord at the age of Lovin and really began walking deeply with the Lord and my early s and my prayer for many, many years have been more break my heart, for what break sures. You know, always had a heart for missions and for the least of these, and so you know, that was kind of the where my heart was when I came to a place like this and I saw such brokenness, I saw such hurt and I saw such need. Yeah, I was. I was broken, and I believe that's the reaction that most people experience when they come here again. Yeah, I think that most Christians are were like me or are like me where they it's kind of out of sight, out of mind. They're not really thinking about it. Oh, it's a political issue, which is such a lie. This is a moral issue. And really the question I had asked myself, and I know it's so simple that I challenge are people that are coming out for prayer walks with us all the time, is do you really believe these are children? Were talking right? Ultimately, that's really what it comes down to, right, because if we really believe these are children were talking about, we have to live differently. Yeah, I didn't have a choice to go back to my office and just go go along with my life as normal. Yeah, if I really believe these were children and my heart is for the things of God and for the things of his kingdom, like I had to live differently. Yeah, and so, and I believe that's most people's reaction, those that love God, love people. When they come out here, they see the brokenness, they say, I have to do something, and something just recently I shared with you, actually yesterday,...

...that the Lord is really highlighted for me is, you know, I think we, most Christians, especially those that are pro life, would always say, yeah, I believe that's a life in the womb, right, but the reality is most of us don't ever live like that. Yeah, right, we in some ways we think that there is a difference between a child and the womb and the child outside of the womb, but the scripture tells us differently and we got to stand on God's word in this thing. And one of the scriptures that really has stirred my heart, especially recently, is in Luke chapter one when it says that the baby leaped in the womb, talking about Elizabeth and John The meds. Yeah, the baby leaped in the womb and the Greek word for that is Brefos. And you jump over to Luke Chapter two, when it's describing Jesus outside of the womb, is Angel speaking to the shepherd's describing the baby outside of the womb, the same exact Greek word is it is is to describe the child outside of the room, the womb. Bre Fos. Yeah, you see it even further along in Luke, I think it's Luke Eighteen, and even in acts Chapter Seven. And so we have to stand on the word of God that these are children that we're talking about and God sees zero difference between a child and the womb and a child outside of the womb. I believe if we can really come to that type of revelation in our life, then we will live drastically different, yeah, from from where we were before. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Kind of bring me into you, because I wasn't there that day. Actually, I wasn't the director of cities for life when you had first come out. Maybe it's like twelve. Yeah, okay, these two thousand and twelve. So I came in as direct I was involved. Came in as a director in two thousand and fifteen. So kind of bring me back to that day and just a little bit of what you saw. Like, you know, you're standing in front of an abortion clinic. Yeah, obviously not just looking at a building and that's what Burns your heart. where? What were some of the things that you were seeing? Yeah, so you're standing there right across the street here on the trobe in front of the abortion clinic, and I saw a packed parking lot. There was a lot of cars there that day and I was seeing people still coming in, driving in, and as they were driving in I could just see such brokenness. Yeah, face, just hurt, hopelessness, driving into this place and it just the again. The reality is like a fresh revelation. Hit me like and there's a baby that's in the womb. There's a human being, a child, that is alive. When they walk in those doors that I'm seeing right there, and when they exit there, a child is gone, child has been snatched out of the womb. And it was just for me to see the faces. And I also saw this intense struggle that took place with one mom in the parking lot right she gets out of her car and she starts walking into the abortion center and then she walks back out, and she walks back in and she walks back out. You could see the struggle of life first death, and so that notion that when a woman comes to an abortion clinic her mind's already made up, that was kind of debunked right away. Yeah, and I could feel an intense spiritual battle, yeah, being there,...

I could feel it, I could sense it, but it was literally manifesting itself in the physical right in front of me. Yeah, and so these type of things, as I saw these as real lives. There were no longer just statistics or out of sight, out of mind. I mean these are human beings. My heart began to break for the MOMS, for the DAD's of course, for the children, but even for the workers, people that are, you know, helping perform these abortions like man like, like they just been duped by the by the Endemy, like this, they're enslaved in this thing. And so, yeah, it was visually for me, as I saw it, and then as I saw Christians that were out there reaching out. Cities for life was there help, pregnancy cure center monroe with their mobile unit was out there. Okay, they were offering real hope, offering real resources to families. I was like, man, I got a team up with that, like yeah, we got to figure out a way to be a part of, yeah, life in our city. And so, you know, cities for life, obviously we're involved in sidewall counseling there, we're involved in regular outreach and that was again the folks that you saw reaching out there. But the Lord really put a burden in your heart to to really get so so you have like this handful of people that are there too, very committed, mostly homeschool moms, that they are reaching out really in the think of that spiritual battle, but from when I get from you you're thinking. was like, okay, this is a bigger issue than just a handful of people doing something about this thing. This is something that we need to come at as the Church of Jesus Christ. And Yeah, to me, I mean that's in your heart. Yeah, we just had a meeting yesterday. You did, you guys hit it up a meeting with some local pastors, eighteen different churches that had pastors. You guys have been I mean as a ministry, cities are like. We've had hard time getting churches, getting pastors to come out and to do sidewalk council. It's a lot of them have we think, God for him, but getting into the kind of the the broader church world. You guys have been able to do that in some ways that I don't think a lot of ministries ever a magic it would even be possible. Yeah, so talk to me a little bit about sort of your burden for the Church and and the church being involved in this thing. Yeah, well, first off, just we were, I was encouraging inspired to do more by seeing the faithful remnant that was already there. You know, families like yours, the Benom's Vicky, so many others that you know, had just jumped in and we're doing everything they could to bring life to these families. And I really believe that that remnant has plowed a hard ground. Yeah, and we're really reaping. We're seeing some things that are happening because of the ground that was plowed by groups like cities for life and so many faithful families that were out here when nobody else knew, no, true, nobody else knew about the abortion clinic. You guys were continue to be faithful day after day. You've been doing this for what, thirteen years? His sins too, since two thousand and five. Yeah, and so, man, just honor you, Bro like you've inspired me, my family so many others. But I knew that you it wasn't just the work for you guys to do, like, yes, it is for the body of Christ, right, yeah, and it's too much to shoulder just for...

...a handful of families. So the Lord you have began doing a work in me of just, you know, how can we bring in the Church of Jesus Christ as a whole in this city to activate them, to give them a vehicle to experience what I experienced, you know, seeing it being yeah, broken over the issue and then being led with compassion to actually do, you know, real things that need to be done in our city, hard things, to lay our lives down so that others can live. And so that's, you know, another thing that I just remember from that day. I remember thinking, man, if thirty people were dying in a local elementary school, or Middle School, whatever you want to put on it, right, if that was happening, this thing would be national news in a matter of seconds. The FBI, the SWAT, everybody would be running to the scene. Yeah, and I didn't believe the local church would be running to Celia scenarios right, to bring healing, to bring protection in those families. And so again, as I came to the revelation that this is that these are children were talking about. God sees zero difference between the kids in the womb and the kids outside of the womb, I said, how come we're not running to the scene in greater numbers, because we have people that are dying in this building six days a week and we don't know where else that's going to take place. Right we don't know what the next school shooting is going to take place. We don't know when the next homicide is going to take place or where it's going to happen, but we do know we're around twenty to thirty children are going to die every day in our city. So therefore we should be running to the scene. And so this is just a burden that the Lord began putting in my heart. And then fast forward a two thousand and fifteen. Is when the Lord really downloaded the strategy for what that looks like. Yeah, and a little bit of that strategy. Yeah. So just again, this was in a season of just seeking the Lord, and I remember the kind of the first email that came through. I think you you sent it to David and David sent it to me, or obviously send it to both both of us, like here's this strategy. Yeah, and it's like this, this dude like has gotten something from the Lord, like he's gotten something kind of laid out here. So, yeah, yeah, I remember. It's August twenty of two thousand and fifteen. I was on my living room floor and just seeking the face of God and felt him speak very clearly to me that day. I've called you to the least of these and I've called you to be a voice for the voiceless. Yeah, and you know, again, this had already seated, already been planted in my heart and we had got involved, you know, with some things here locally. But we actually had plans. We thought we were going to do international missions. Okay, as a family. We thought that the Lord was potentially even calling us to sell the business and do some things internationally. But the Lord had different plans for us. And and again, that's the word that he spoke to me. And then, following that, about over the course of a week, God just sort of waken me up in the middle of the night. I wasn't able to sleep that much and during that time just started journaling the things that the God was putting in my heart. And that's what became love life, the things that he was downloading to me during over that course of the week, and took me into the book of...

Nehemiah, and a lot of the strategy came from the Amiah. Yeah, and so the whole mission is uniting and mobilizing the church. Yeah, we believe the church is the key element here to create a culture of love and life. That would result to an end too, abortion and the orphan crisis. And so what we what we always say is we believe God's called the church to shape the culture. Politician legislation that's downstream there to follow the culture. We want to create a culture where family stopped running to local abortion clinics for the answer. They start running to the local church. Yeah, and again, just standing on the word of God. Matthew Sixteen Eighteen says the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. It's the church is so key here in Matthew Sixteen nineteen that he's given us the keys to the kingdom. Whatever we bond on earth, we bound in heaven. A we loose on earth, be loose in heaven, says Co Laboring with the Lord that he desires. I fully believe God wants to see abortion in more than we do. Yeah, he's just been waiting for his bride. When waiting for their church. Yeah, the Colabor with them in this mission is some. Some flip says, which is like a classic quote, is abortion won't end in this country until the Church of Jesus Christ ascided that it will. And I believe that's a true statement. Absolutely. And Flip was there that day when I first came out in two thousand and twelve and okay, I believe he shared that with me then and just started seating some things in my heart of you know, the importance of the local church. Yeah, and getting involved in this thing. And so that's the mission of Love Life we've we use a vehicle, it's just a vehicle, to mobilize a church or what we call all a forty week journey of hope. Yeah, and again this was part of the strategy that the Lord Download. But the forty weeks is, you know, the time from conception to birth, and we give each partnering Church at least we ask them to take at least one week out of the forty weeks. Many take multiple weeks, but say take at least one week to mobilize your people through what we call adoption week. And in adoption week we walker people through four steps. We want them to hear, pray, go and connect. So the here pieces education. Right, we got to know really what's happening in our backyard. Most people don't know, as I didn't know, Oh yeah, that abortion is the leading cause of death in our city. Most people are completely unaware. When I share that stat in churches they're like what, yeah, more death is happening through abortion and cancer or heart disease or anything else. Yeah, at days combine. That's the reality of what's happening in our cities. These are children that we're talking about. And then, of course, you know, what does God's words say about life? And but we don't stop there. That's just step one. That's typically a lot of times where we have stopped as as a church right and in the past, and we call the church to prayer and fasting on their Wednesday of their adoption week, because we believe this is spiritual battle that must be fought with spiritual weapons. And when we pray and we fast, it aligns our heart with the father's heart. So it's a critical element. Mark Nine hundred and twenty nine. This kind can only come out through prayer and fasting. But then again, we don't stop at step two. We say we got to go to step three, which is we want a prayer walk, we want to go to the brokenness in our city and you...

...know, to do a prayer walk. So we do that for forty weeks. From nine to eleven in the morning is the prayer walks. When people come, they we try to make it as turn key as possible. So, yes, which people show up? You know, they're greeted by volunteers or help people parking their cars. They come in, they get a free love life t shirt, they get the wristband, they get our prayer card that has our code of conduct on it, and then for two hours we worship, we pray, we use the weapons that God has given us, those things, the word of God, testimonies, and we allow people to have that moment that I had right two thousand and twelve, to see it for themselves, let the Lord break their heart. And then, at the end of the prayer walk we say it's great that you've heard and you've prayed and you've come today, but now we're asking you to begin the rebuilding process here in our city, to get connected beyond the prayer walk, which is step for rebuilding you means that connection with the Ami am y on the w on the wall, you know. So what is your place on the wall? Like you know, are you called to be a sidewalk counselor with cities for life? Are you called to be a mentor for a mom or dad that's made the choice for life? Right, I see you know, sidewalk counseling and frontlines ministry a lot like a rescue system. Yeah, you're open snatch people out of the fire. It's a critical, critical element. Yeah, and if you feel called to that, great, get trained up and get get in the fight. But some might be called more of the rehabilitation yea process. Right. Then, mentoring element of saying hey, you know, we're not here just to tell you that there's help available for you, we want to connect you into a local church with a mentor that's going to walk with you. So some are called to be mentors, some are called a sidewalk council, some are called to foster or adopt. We believe this is a big part of the culture shift. Yeah, I'm going to care about the orphan in the womb and also the orphonos. One of the dynamics to you, you know, I just jump in here quick as that. If you talk to women that come to an abortion clinic, I don't want a statistic is you might know, but a lot of these women that come to an abortion clinic are, we're in the foster care system themselves and in sword I col yeah, it's like there's a cycle that can be broken. So we can get into the foster care system and bring the Gospel to these kids when they're young, then they won't end up there. But yeah, exactly. Mean in North Carolina there's Twelveero kids in the foster care system. That fluctuates, you know, of course, but around Twelvezero kids in the foster care system, about Zozo of those kids are clear and free for adoption immediately. Is Waiting for mom and a dad that will adopt them, and most people are unaware it, just as I was, that there's zero cost financially to adopt one of those kids. Yeah, you know when you're when you're adopting a kid out of the foster care system. So, yeah, we believe this is the role of the church. Is Not the role of government. Psalm Sixty eight five tells us that a father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God and is wholly dwelling. He takes the lonely and he sets some in families. Yeah, so we always challenge a church. I don't that we say we don't believe. God's calling us to build more orphanages. He's calling us to adopt more kids. Yeah, and the church is the answer for that and if, if the light doesn't disciple...

...these kids, the darkness gladly will. Well, yeah, and so to your point, as we bring these kids into godly homes, not just any home, and to godly homes, we can really begin to see the culture shift. Yeah. So this is again adoption week. Here, pray, go connect. This is how we mobilize the church. This all comes out of Neemiah. Yeah, the am I went on the same exact journey. He heard the tragedy that was happening in Jerusalem. That's where nee my one begins. His brother comes and shares with him about the brokenness and Jerusalem. So we educate people. Then he turned a prayer and fasting, which is stepped to. Yeah, but he didn't stop there and I think a lot of times again, as Christians, we kind of stopped there. And because, listen, we believe in the power of prayer. Right, prayer and fasting is the backbone of our of our campaign. But we also are called to lay our lives down, as first John Three, sixteen and eighteen tells us to do. And so we see Nehemiah. He leaves his palace where he was and he goes to the brokenness, yeah, to Jerusalem, where the brokenness is, and that's what we're saying to the church. It's time for us to leave our palaces and to go to the brokenness of our city, which is the prayer walk. That's the prayer the prayer walk element. That happens every Saturday's and then the rebuilding begins. Yeah, after that, in Chapter Three, thee my chapter three, the rebuilding process begins and we see a beautiful picture of unity. And Chapter Yeah, which is the father's heart. We know, we see that the Levites stood next to the priest a priesthood next to the merchant and merchant next to the Goldsmith, and so we're calling for the church to do the same, for the Baptists, stand next to the Presbyterians, Presbyterians next to the pentecostle's, pen acostles, next to non denomination, as well as other parachurch organizations. Because it's united body of Christ it's going to break the stronghold of abortion. Yes, city, and so that's the mission, that's the download that the Lord has given us. We've been doing it for about three and a half years. Yeah, we're here in Charlotte, Greens grow and Rowley now and we launch a New York City there, which is which is amazing, that you're going to launched there in New York. Talk Real quick, if you could, because I know there's going to be people that will listen to this podcast. You know, it's called Gospel centered pro life and and what I get from you and anyone within our ministry, anyone within the prolife movement that I'm connected with, if you ask them why they're pro life, they're going to go right to Jesus, the Gospel God change my heart. He got a hold of my heart for this issue and I'm doing it because of what he's done in my heart. So that's that's what I'm getting from you, which is which is awesome. But there's going to be people to listen to this podcast that are thinking like, okay, I'm out here on the Sidewalker, I'm here in a pregnancy center and I'm doing this work and I just don't feel like anybody's coming along. I don't feel like the Church has risen up in my city. How in the world are they able to do it there? And you kind of say, well, we get this package thing that we bring to a pasture, we share it with them and they can get on board and they get on board and they come out and they do the prayer walks. But what are some of the things? Because some, you know, people aren't going to be able. ALL PEOPLE WARN'T gonna be able to do that, but to get a package thing. But they can still encourage people to...

...pray. So one of the some of the things that you've learned that you can say to a pastor to really get his heart. I know some of US going to be some of the stuff you've already said. But there are the other barriers. You know. I just share real quick. There's barriers as far as I'm concerned. When I speak to a pastor and I say hey, we got to an abortion clinic, we offer help and hope. In the name of Jesus, they think, Oh, you're those people that stand in front of an abortion clinic hold up pictures of dead babies and yellow women right now. So I have to tear that stigma down. I have to have to come after that thing right away. Are you get some of that? And for sure? I mean that's definitely kind of the stigma. The most pro life, you know, ministry is viewed in especially if it's done out an abortion clinic. Yeah, and so what we we've done. And when we started small man, our very first prayer walk, we had twenty two people. You, yeah, remember. Yeah. And and just we started with, you know, those that were close to us, of course, my own pastor. Yeah, my pastor Jeff was all in from the very again it. He's a good brother. Yeah. And so just I would encourage people to start with your pastor start with your church, start with people maybe that you know are your friends and their church. But the easiest way that we have found on board churches to get them involved in pro life work is say, come with me for one hour to the abortion clinic. We call it a Onehour journey. Yeah, we call it. And they come out for one hour and we do something very similar. That was done with me in two thousand and twelve. Yeah, it's a simple invitation to for people to come out see it for themselves. So I would bring people out, we educate them, we let them know how many abortions are happening every day, how many abortions are happening every week, because most pastors don't know that. Another staggering thing that most pastors are unaware of is that these are private businesses for the most part, except for the plan parenthoods and a few others, but these are privately owned businesses that are bringing in millions of dollars a year doing nothing but abortions. Yeah, so we educate these people in this one hour and then we just spend time in prayer together. Yeah, just say let's let's pray. Man, there's lives on the line. We're standing between the living and the dead right now, and in that time, in that moment of education, awareness and prayer, God begins to break the heart of the shepherds and the pastors in our city. And then at the end of it, typically they want to know art what I need to do. Yeah, let's do something. So you basically like the Lord set you up. Yeah, right, I'm the Lord. Set me up. In that scenario, you kind of setting them up for the Holy Spirit to do his words. Right. You know, I mentioned yesterday to you, and Andre, Andre is the city director here in Charlotte, about how the prayer walks really, in my mind, are a short term mission trip, though no one goes on a full term mission like sales everything and goes out to the Philippines or China or whatever. Without, typically without having first gone out on a short term mission, get their heart really from the Lord, get their heart chains for that that city or that that village or that country or whatever. And so that's kind of what you're doing with these pastors...

...and with these these individuals, okaylutely exposing them to the thing where it takes place and let in the Holy Spirit do his work. That's it. Yeah, I think that's that's right on the money and we hear from pastors all the time the church that I brought out to the prayer walk is a completely different congregation that I brought back after the prayer walk. And that's what short term mission trips do. Yeah, mean stirs up not just for pro life work, but really anything. I mean just serving in the nursery, you know. You know, their congregation wants to serve in more ways after, you know, the short term mission trip. Yeah, that's the same with the pastors, and so I would encourage people to do that. Just, you know, a simple invitation. You know, kind of start with the people that you have, yeah, people in your network ready, you know, and and be educated. Educate yourself on it first, so as you stand there, you're able to educate them on what's happening. Abortions are happening on these days. You know, typically this amount of people are here, you know, so that you can share that information with these pastors or whoever you're taking out there, spend time in prayer. And I would say kind of a next phase of that is, if you decide to go beyond that, doing the best that you can to really create a vehicle or turnkey package for people to get involved in this work. One of the pastors yesterday gave well, we take as an incredible compliment because we work so hard on this element. He said, man, I just want to just want to say that what you guys have done to activate us, our body, our church and pro life ministry, what you have really done for us. You've made it doable. Yeah, you've made it doable. It just kind of seemed kind of, you know, like it was going to be such a big mountain to climb, but the way it's been packaged, you've made it doable for us and so anythings that you can do to make it a turnkey opportunity for people to serve, I think you have more success. Yeah, what are some of the some of the obstacles, though, is you talked to pastors, you share with, you know, with people who you know you want to get involved. You know you want them to, you want their heart for this thing. What are some of the obstacles? You've answered that a little bit. What are some of the obstacles that maybe you face it? You hadn't talked about. Yeah, it's good question, man. I mean I think you know, honestly, most of us, if we just get down to it, you know, the really boil it down, we're just really selfish. Yeah, if you're just right, I say how it is s class of the big obscure and and so. And also, along with that, I think also we've become numb and a lot of ways to this. Like, I'm thirty four years old, so I grew up in a culture of death, yeah, meaning that abortion was always legal on demand. It's all I ever known. Yeah, and so I think for a lot of us we just have grown up with this always being the case and in some ways we kind of just think it always is going to be the case. Yeah, first, versus understanding the time that we live in and saying we're going to stand against the cultural tide of our day. But I...

...think it's, you know, kind of the numbness, the callousmist towards the issue in a lot of ways, but then also just the selfishness. Yeah, a lot of US carry so. But I think you break a lot of that down by doing what I said earlier, getting people out there. We get them out, they get him out there. Yeah, like God break their heart. One of the one of the challenges, and I know you've encountered this as well as you talk to just pastors but also to just individual Christians, is like, okay, we have this issue called abortion. Yeah, they're taking innocent lives. You get the political push back, like this is the political thing. I don't really want to deal with politics. For sure, I get that. Yeah, it's great. I'm glad he brought that up. Yeah, we do. Honestly, we don't deal with it once we get people out to the abortion clinic. Hardly at all. Right, yeah, it's like that almost erases so many things. But kind of prior to that you get that more and very seldom will get it after. But but yeah, I mean I think you know, just hitting that head on and just, you know, challenging people to say, look, this is not a political issue. This is a moral issue. Just because politicians talk about the poor doesn't make poverty political. Yeah, I mean, politicians talk about the poor all the time, but no pastor would say that the issue of the poor is political, right, yeah, it's so in some way Satan has like deceived us. Oh yeah, and if thinking that this moral issue is political, and and also we see in scripture, and you know, that John the Baptist spoke to the political leaders of his day and it cost him his head. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where we get that we shouldn't speak even to things that are in the political realm. But just it's a cop out, you know, just a backs up. I mean, it's not a political issue. These are children that we're talking about, these are people that are dying in the same way of when slavery was happening in the mid eighteen hundreds, you know, when black people were being hung from trees. You know, Yep, politicians were talking about that all the time. But would we, as the Church today say that slavery is a political issue? No, we wouldn't. Write. I mean these are children, these are children of God that we're talking about. So I just would challenge that, thinking in a loving way. I would be very graceful about it, point people to scripture and just walcome through it. Yeah, so just about five more minutes before we wrap up, but I didn't want to ask you a question because you're again you're new to the pro life movements. Far As some are concerned, you know, I've been people like we mentioned flip Beenham earlier, have been in the stank for, you know, thirty plus years. You have other people even within our ministry, have been in this thing longer than I have, which is amazing. But being kind of new on the pro life scene, are there some things within the pro life movement not not to be critical? Obviously we can't, you know, I can criticize everybody or you should be doing this, you should be doing that, and I know you're you. That's just not your heart. It's not my heart either. But if there're things you think that we could do better give are there things that you think that the pro life movement has sort of failed hone or it just ainting constructive? Yeah, criticism.

I mean it again. I just begin with I have seen families like yourself and the Benom's and flip and the hell dress and so many others that have really paved the way. I think it's so many ways for this, you know, till that hard ground, and I really believe we're getting to stand on your shoulders today in many ways. But you know, the Lord just gave again. I didn't come in with, you know, like being raised up in front of an abortion clinic or anything like that, at an amazing family that always led me and taught me the things of God and lived it out in the home. But I wasn't raised like your kids been raised in front of an abortion clinic. Yeah, so I kind of just came into it with a fresh perspective. Yeah, and again it was a download from heaven really, but I just believe that as the Church of Jesus Christ, you know that we have the hope, we have the answers and and so therefore God is calling us, the church, to do hard things. If there's one message I can give to the church, it's people in pro life as well. He's calling us to deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow him. That that is the call that he is giving us here today. And so for those in the pro life movement, maybe you've been doing it for many, many years. I just want to encourage him to keep going them. Yeah, just keep going, keep going. We will see an end to this thing. Yeah, we will, and will look back on this thing and say, remember when in our children will grow up, I believe, in a country and in a nation that respects life once again. So I main encouragement for them is to keep going. The other piece I would say that I think it's critical. I know I'm not answering your question directly, but I'm yeah, I feel like I'm giving an overall understanding of this is that there's many different parts of the body and God is to design them in all many different ways. Yeah, and I think a lot of times what we do in the pro life movement, or whatever else you want to put it, across the body of Christ is we criticize one another because because we don't match up maybe with that gifting. Yeah, if my gifting is mercy and your gifting is the prophetic edge, then I'm going to cast my gifting through my lens upon you right expecting you to operate out of the gifting of mercy as well. And I think a lot of times vice verse is always true. The person with the prophetic edge is looking through their lens and casting their gifting upon the rest of the body of Christ. Yeah, versus honoring each other's Giftings, respecting each other's giftings and say, man, I'm thankful that there's many different parts in the body. Again, he's told us that some are the eyes, some of the ear or some of the knows, some of their hand. And so I think at the heart of it, man, that's a really key thing for us to catch in the pro life movement in the church as a whole, is to honor each other's giftings recognize them. It's because when they all come together, that's when we experience the fullness, yeah, the body of yeah, absolutely. Other than that, man, I just would say that engaging the local church...

...is a critical thing. Yeah, I know most pro life groups try to do that, but versus being frustrated by the local church and, yeah, I'm just going to do it all then forget about it, like we're going to launch this Paratrich Para Church Organization. We're going to do it all, find a way to come alongside the local church, to equip the local church, to give them the tools that are needed to accomplish the mission, yeah, versus us just kind of carrying ourselves. Yeah, yeah, that's a good word. Yeah, it's a good word and I think we'll end with that. I appreciate you shake him, but appreciate what the Lord's doing through through you guys. I'm actually going to have Andreal and hopefully in a couple of a couple of weeks, to talk about prayer and worship in front of an abortion clinic, because a lot of people don't think about praying worship. He's really got a hard, sordid yeah, so I want to talk about that with him, but I appreciate you coming. Appreciate all you guys who watch and who are listening and hope you're encouraged by these episodes. We're going to keep putting out episodes really centered around pro life issues in light of the Gospel. If you want to connect with us as a ministry. Again, this is not to promote cities for life. This is just for us to help you guys, to help equip you guys. But you can connect with cities for life with at Charlotte dot cities for Life Dot Org, and then we also have a website that's really national to encourage people's not, you know, trying to get people to come under our ban or anything like that. It's just an equipping website and that is sidewalks for life, sidewalks the number four and lifecom and there's a lot of stuff on there. Justin their website is Love Life Dot Org, and you can go into see what God's doing through them. If you're in Raleigh, Greensboro, CHARLOTTE, if you're in New York, coming in September, right New York City, they're going to do start prayer walks there, so you can get on more with those prayer walks and see what God is doing through that. We just want to encourage you. Guys. We appreciate all you who are serving the Lord and whatever capacity has called you to and we pray for God's blessing of you. Yeah, can I just say one thing? Yeah, I just want to say that in this is not because you're here. I say this a lot, but cities for life is one of the greatest front lines ministries in the nation. If you haven't connected with Front Lines Ministry or sidewalk counseling, I don't encourage you. Get connected with citiual life and they've done incredible work of putting together online training, as you mentioned earlier, the sidewalks for life. So tap into it. These guys have been in it for a long time. If learned a lot. There's a lot of DOS and don'ts in those trainings. So thankful for Citiual, I think. Yeah, sure, like God's Great. Yeah, all right, God bless use Milan, give me, give me. It will cost me my life, but things two precious inside.

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