Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode 144 · 3 months ago

Reaching Out At Late Term Abortion Facilities

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every abortion center presents unique challenges. Most abortion centers do early term abortions but some of these centers do them 20 weeks and past. In this episode, we talk through some strategies to reach out at these late term abortion facilities and how to be most effective in helping these moms choose life.

https://sidewalks4life.com/equipping-articles/ 

This was a very sympathetic piece on a man who dismembers living twenty week and, above babies. Yeah, and for that to have been a sympathetic portrayal shows the power of good writing and good storytelling right, and I think we all need to keep that in mind because we need to change the narrative. I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, and me, Lord, I am yours, I am yours. I'm welcome to the Gospel Center pre life podcast, a podcast designed to equip, encourage and challenge you in pro life ministry, and always with a focus on the Gospel. Stay tuned. I felt show Passih touchs your home. Use Me. Welcome back to the Gospel centered pro life podcast. We appreciate you guys joining us and, as always, we'd appreciate if you guys would share this podcast with others. We're going to share our email addresses at the end of this episode so you can reach out to us because, as always, we'd like for you to reach out if you have any questions, if you have any other topics that you'd like for us to cover, suggestions for future podcast, we'd love to do those and the podcast episode that we're going to do today is going to be based on someone reaching out with some questions about sidewalk out reaching their area. Just real quick, I'll introduce myself. We've tried to do that in the most recent episodes just because there's some new people that are coming on and listening. So my name is Daniel Parks. I'm the director or the West Coast Regional Shepherd for love life, so oversee our efforts on the west coast. Even though I'm on the East Coast, I'm actually out on the west coast. A lot travel back and forth and I'm joined by Vicki Kessi Org. Hey, there everyone, and I am a sidewalk missionary here in Charlotte. have been doing this almost a decade, yeah, and these podcasts for about two years. Yeah, and so, you know, to toot our own horns and to let you guys know that we're like super official and we know everything about sidewalk ministry. Absolutely. We've been doing this for twenty five combined years. Yeah, right, one time, and we're super humble about that. Right now, we are super humble, like even though we've been doing this for a while combined, twenty five years experience we're still learning stuff, like every every day and time we're out there, something new. We get to interact with you guys that are listening and you throw out suggestions to us and questions to us and we learned stuff from you guys. So, to be honest, like we are humble to be able to serve you guys in this way and to speak into your situation, speak into your city and the sidewalk out reach ministry there. But we're also we realize that maybe if you view us as experts, you've been duped because we pretend to be...

...experts. We play experts on a podcast, in a ministry like this, they're just there. No real experts. There is always something that is going to throw you for a loop pretty much every day. Yeah, we day, you work, and that's why I always say yeah, in the trainings that we do and stuff, it's like, if you want to know, I caught the super duper top secret trick, uhh, to being effective on the sidewalk right, you know what it is? Wiki beyond the sidewalk? I don't know. No, that's not it. Nice tribe, but that was wrong. The super duper top secret, secret, secret tip to be effective on the sidewalk. Oh, be in the Lord, be in the word. How about walk with Jesus? Men, walk with Jesus. That includes being a prayer, being in the word. Yeah, but we do think that we have some value to add you guys. We do think we can take some of our experiences and just share him, share them on this podcast. That's what we intend to do. So in this episode I'll let you introduce the topic, Vicki. Okay, well, this did come from a counselor who is working or surfing at a facility where they only do late term abortion. Yeah, and I didn't know there was such a facility. It's in Boulder, Colorado, and I relatively famous abortionist. Warn her famous, infamous, that's a better word. Warren Warren hern is his name, and I guess us, the La Times wrote recently wrote an article on him and then, I believe, the missionary saw that article and found out, wow, this is this is the facility where I'm going to be serving as a sidewalk missionary or counselor, and so she sent us the article that the La Times wrote and asked if we were familiar with this. Sent us a rebuttal from a pro life thinks live action. It was like action. And and then said, given that this is only late term abortions, would this altar how you would speak to the women and your strategy? And we answered separately, Daniel and I, in in letters. I've written an article that includes roughly both of our our answers, little bit different. In many ways we agreed, but we had some slight differences. But also I did a little bit further research. I did read both of these articles. I recommend everybody read them. And and then I did a little bit further research on why people come for a later term abortion, because that's important to know. Yeah, and that's what how this article developed in then this podcast developed. was trying to add it not only adequately answered that missionaries question, but then someone else wrote us in a very similar situation and said what would you say?...

That maybe as unique from what you would say to someone in a early term. Yeah, abortion. So that's how it Develta. Yeah, and we had talked about this a couple of episodes ago when we talked about getting in the mindset. The encouragement in that podcast was we need to we need to try the best we can to enter into the mindset of the women that were ministering to so that we can understand their perspective and accurately speak into their situation. Right, I mentioned this little bit kind of the interaction that we had yes the lady there in Colorado and that the mindset could be different. So this is a more in depth look at that. Like what is that? What is the mindset of a woman that's coming for late term abortion? Yeah, how would we tweak our language or what would we focus on? Because you depending on the situation, again, whether it's a late term abortion or whatever the situation might be. I mean, I'm even looking at the situation where if you're talking to someone who's taking the abortion pill versus someone who has a surgical abortion, is going in for a surgical abortion, there's a cut general framework is the three talking points, but there's a couple of things that I'm going to say to the abortion pill person that I wouldn't say to the surgical abortion person and vice versa. Right, correct. And so just there's a couple things to consider and as we're talking about late term abortions, there's a couple things to consider. Yeah, in the series. Yes, so in that article, one of the things that right off the bat they met. I well, the article where I tried to find out the mindset of the woman. So try to find out facts about late term abortions in the mindset of the women, they term abortion is a is kind of a term that they don't recommend you even use, right, because he doesn't really have a lot of meaning. What is a late term abortion? So in this article it it talked about abortions after twenty weeks, right. Yeah, so, and it's essentially third trum Mster abortion is socially essentially this a little bit before the third term. But but most abortion centers, I don't know even know if it's most. I know the abortion centers here in Charlotte are up to about twenty weeks. Yeah, and and that's what a lot of people are going to be coming in, you know, serving at. Although most abortions occur in the first trimester. Yeah, but there are women that come in that third trimester and I think that most people believe, and I think you mentioned, that it's usually due to feed, a l abnormality of some sort. But I wanted to find out specifically why people come for late term abortion in this article. I think it was really interesting. Why, the main reasons, and it was a study, and of the main reasons why women over forty, over twenty weeks, come for an abortion? Yeah, and they may have faced more than one of the following issues, which I'm going to go over, but they they reported facing these issues and this...

...is why they were coming for an abortion. Yeah, so they delayed the decision to abort because of these particular correct. Okay, correct. So first of all, the the first I don't know item, was any barrier, if there was any barrier present, thirty one percent of the women said that there was some sort of a barrier, okay, and a barrier between them and having the abortion. Correct, okay, correct. So now that they don't specifically in this article ever list fetal abnormality, okay, or health risk with the mom okay, but the article did point out that that is those are both main issues for people in late term abortions. Not not necessarily the only issue, maybe not an issue at all. Yeah, but those do occur and and a question that came to my mind right away was why wait if there's a maternal risk? Why did they wait? Yeah, and one of the things the article pointed out is some maternal risk don't show up till the third term right, which I hadn't really thought about. High Blood Pressure, pretty clamsy CLAMPSIA, all those sorts of things. So it's good to know that. But any barrier? Thirty one percent of them said that there was some sort of a barrier preventing them from getting an earlier abortion. Forty percent of them said raising money for the procedure and related costs. Now that's interesting because a third term abortion is thousands of dollars right, very expensive. So that means they couldn't even afford less expensive abortion. Yeah, and had to go about somehow raising the money. Yeah, forty percent not knowing about the pregnancy. Twenty percent. Again, a lot of us will look at that and say what, they don't know? They're twenty weeks pregnant. They don't know it. I'll tell you there was one time I went on the RV there was a woman didn't even know she was pregnant on our mobile ultra sound rvy. She didn't even know she was pregnant. She was thirty two weeks. Yeah, so it happens, but it does happen. Twenty percent of them didn't know about the pregnancy. Yeah, by the way, I want y'all to keep in mind as I'm listing all these things, these are not fetal abnormality or maternal risk. These are the same things that we sometimes hear from the first term. Yeah, abortion, their doubt, difficulties securing insurance coverage. Forty one percent. Now, that one made me gag, because that means that some people do get insurance coverage for an abortion. Yeah, and if you don't know that, you need to know that. That's kind of sad as yeah, that insurance pays for abortions. Forty percent. This is key. I think this might be the most important one. Trouble deciding about the abortion. Forty percent end. That means forty percent of the...

...women coming for a late term abortion still have conflict in their heart. We know we can speak to that. Yeah, thirty eight percent did not know where to go for an abortion. That floors me. Yeah, that's a big percentage. There's some abortion centers. I advertise they're all over the place, but thirty eight percent don't know where to go. Yeah, difficult difficulty getting to an abortion se facility. Twenty seven percent disagreeing about the abortion with the man involved. Twenty percent. Yeah, so, while fetal abnormality maternal risk are big reasons for a late term abortion, they are hardly the only reason, sometimes not even the most important reason, and that's very important for people who are serving at those facilities to know you can speak to all these other issues, not just to the fetal abnormality and internal risk. Yeah. So, so this this this abortionist Warren Hearne, something that I really spoke to me as I read that article, and I would recommend that everybody read that article. They present him so sympathetically that he comes across as a victim and a hero. Yeah, of course he's. He's a victim, not the baby, cit he kills their abord exactly. He's a hero because he gives a woman her life back or whatever. Yeah, ever, yeah, they deem that he's fighting for these poor woman. Right, and never the article never once mentions the murdered babies. Of course, course. But but what struck me as a writer, and I think it will strike you, Daniel, because you were always talking about the value of stories, this was a a very sympathetic piece on a man who dismembers living twenty week and above babies. Yeah, and for that to have been a sympathetic portrayal shows the power of good riding and good storytelling, right, and I think we all need to keep that in mind because we need to change the narrative in our stories. Stories are powerful. Yeah, our stories can equally paint the truth of what happens to that baby, yeah, and the devastation to the mother, and all of us need to be aware of aware of that and how to do that. Well. Yeah. Yeah, so the other article live action to bunks the time's peace, and I think it's important for us to read that so that we have the balance of the truth bumped up against this very well written la La Times story. Yeah, but anyway, you gave the your feedback to the missionary in Oregon, in bolder, who wrote tested...

US Colorado. I'm sorry that that asked us what do we do and I thought your feedback was really good. So maybe you could talk about the things that you mentioned. Yeah. So my point was that the women that we're seeing that come in for an early first trimester even second trimester abortion are typically like and you know, we've seen women who come in who are amazed. When we we do, by God's grace, get to show them an ultrasound and they see their baby at nine eight, nine weeks, got a heartbeat. They're amazing. They'll say it's a baby right. So there's this ability, in a sense, even though there's really no excuse for it because the technology we have, but there's this ability to kind of disconnect themselves from the reality that they're carrying a baby because I don't yet feel that baby. It's not a clear maybe in their bodies there some changes, but they're not a clear change in our don't have a baby bump and that sort of thing. When you get into, of course, the third trimester, but even like twenty weeks. We all know and have seen people who are pregnant at twenty weeks. You can see their baby. Yeah, you can see that baby kick. They can feel the baby kick right. So there's no denying that it's a baby at that point. So my response was one like we certainly can appeal to that mother and talk to her about the fact that her baby is a human being, that it's a human life, but she already knows that likely and especially if she's already had because when a woman does find out she's pregnant, I'll say she wanted to get pregnant, but then she finds out she's pregnant with a baby that has some feet or outdoor abnormality or some issue, she's going to go for multiple ultrasounds. Like the doctor. We went through this with our twins. So we have twin twin girls, and they're precious. But at like twelve weeks my wife was twelve weeks pregnans. We found out, I think maybe it was nine weeks, that she was having twins. About twelve weeks my wife woke up in a pool of blood and we thought we were losing the babies. Thought she's miscaring. By God's grace she did not and they lived and continued. And about twenty weeks she had an ultra sound because we have twins. They do regular ultrasound. So twins is sort of an abnormality right. It's sort of a rare they considered a high risk any any situation where a woman has twins, it's a high risk situation for her in for the babies, and so she had multiple ultra sounds and then it like nineteen or twenty weeks. There were some issues. One of the babies was smaller than the other and so they did an ultrasound, they ended up, we end up get an MRI, all these things. Now I'm saying that from our experiences. Like you've seen multiple ultrasounds, right, if there's some some issues with that baby, they're not just going to hopefully at least they're not just going to do one ultrasound and say you got problems with this child, you need to have an abortion. Now, some doctors probably would would do that, but for the most part doctors even...

...that are pro abortion or probably not going to do that, especially if it's with a woman who wanted the child. Does that Make Sen exactly? Yes. Yeah, so they're going to do multiple ultrasound. So there's not like if I'm standing in front of a place where, you know, they're killing babies twenty weeks and above, I would mention the ultrasound, but they've probably already had an ultrasound, right, and so probably what I will mention is you probably saw the ultrasound of your baby. Didn't you see that? Your child is alive. You know, I want to remind them what they've already seen rather than hey, come over here, we have a free ultrasound for you now. If I had that available. I would certainly offer that. I would always talk about a second opinion. I would always say did you get a second opinion to me, and I think I'm pretty sure I responded to the responded to that email in this way. Yeah, that having a high risk doctor and a doctor that is willing to give a second opinion to be that would be on the top of my list to find. I would be finding that high risk doctor. It would. And let me just interjecting in there, make sure it's a pro life high risk because we know that there are high risk doctors who will then just say go ahead and kill the baby because that is the least likely to be sued over response and there their risk converse. So be sure it's a pro life high risk doctor. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah, and so some of the things that I encourage her to do is, yes, I would use the three talking points and I would talk about out resources and things like that. I would talk certainly about the humanity of the baby. That's that's where I would probably rest most of my words and the humanity the baby. Yeah, and and their accountability to accountability to God. I would be reminding them of what they've already seen, because again, they've likely already seen an ultra sound. I would be reminding them of what they're already feeling. You feel your baby kick? Yeah, now I haven't dug into the numbers that that you shared earlier about these percentages of why people come for late term abortions. Obviously, if you do the math, the percentages don't come out to be a hundred percent because because they could have more than one of those factors. They music a point, right, exactly. My point is that there's probably a compounded, right, yes, of each of these things or some level of each of these things. So kind of what I'm getting at is, do people have late term abortions because their baby has down syndrome? Yes, they do, but probably not just because of that, right. There's probably these other things and so trouble deciding about the abortion. So maybe they've found out at twelve weeks. I mean they can do blood tests now, yeah, to find out whether you're not your baby has down syndrome or the percentage that your baby is likely to have down syndrome or something, which I think is absurd, but they you can do that, right, so you can find out a like you know, teve fourteen weeks. Yeah, if your baby has down syndrome, and some of these women could have been going back and forth in their mind of whether or not they should do the abortion, get and advice...

...from people, and then, of course it pushes the the baby on end to twenty weeks. So they right becomes a yeah, it's a third trimester abortion and I agree with where you're going. But I have met women who are twenty weeks pregnant who have not had any fetal or maternal abnormality or risk mentioned, but just cannot decide. They know it's wrong, they just are filled with conflict. Yeah, and that's why they're now entering into, you know, the second and third trimester and still haven't done it. Yeah, so there can be conflict without a factor of some sort of risk grabumality. Yeah, absolutely, speaking about the kind of the health risk of the woman. Yeah, especially when they're in you know, the twenty four to twenty eight week really up into twenty eight, when you get closer to thirty weeks, babies like babies have been born at twenty four weeks, twenty six weeks that have survived. Yeah, now it it's not, of course, the best scenario. But you would have to ask yourself, okay, if the woman has pre ECLAMPSIA and she's twenty five weeks, twenty four weeks along, why would they abhort the Child? Why would they kill the child and then have the child delivered? Because is it would in the process generally be the same. You can leave the child alive and deliver the child. Do you have to kill the child in the deliver the child to stop the symptoms of preclamsy? And you don't, right. And so to me it's like it's it doesn't make sense. Why not just deliver the Child? Is it that this person's looking for a justification to kill the child? Yeah, so that that to me doesn't make sense. And again, I know that that's I want to say this and be kind of careful what I'm saying, but no one goes about to have a late term abortion or, you know, later in the second trimester, in third trimester abortions, and does it kind of on a whim. Right, it's pretty well thought out for the most part, right. Yeah, and it's not just money, it is a big expense. Yeah, when you're getting into the third trimester, you're talking like Tenzero for the abortion proceed right, and so there's there's got to be a compounded amount of things going on right and things that are, you know, similar but maybe even more traumatic, more stressful than people that have an early term abortion. Yeah, and so understanding that, understanding that these we see it all the time. We see women walking into the latrobe abortion center, other abortion centers, the most most of the abortion centers we minister at are going to be twenty weeks in before, like you said, right, and we see people going in flipping us off. It's not a baby. You know, I don't imagine you see a lot of that at these late term...

...abortion facilities. I don't imagine you see a lot of people coming out getting in your face. I don't imagine you do. Now I will say, I'll put it on you guys who reach out at those abortion facilities. Maybe you do see that a lot. Maybe the attitude is different, but I'm imagining in attitude that's more somber, that's more broken, and so there's a way to reach out to those people. HMM. Yeah, I think that that is a very important point that you just raised, because I think there may be doctors who just think the simpler thing to do than delivering an early baby is to just tell them to abort the baby. But they could in most cases, maybe in all cases, in a late term abortion, they do not need to kill the baby. They could deliver the baby and the baby may or may not make it, but there is a choice to kill one human being. Yeah, to reduce whatever the risk to the to the MOM. Late term abortions are risky. Yeah, the MOM. There is a lot that can go wrong in in a late term abortion. That is it is not a small risk factor. Yeah, so I think that it's important to point that out. Yeah, but undoubtedly there it might be the doctor that she is seen who is going with what he sees as the least risky right option, but it could be well be her having more than just the concern about whatever abnormality. Yeah, being concerned about those other issues. So I liked what you said also when when you wrote that letter, that of the convenience factor. Right. I'm not sure that you mentioned that. And Yeah, talking about the mindset, right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a very inconvenient thing to go in for a late term abortion. Yeah, sure, I mean, especially when you've got people that are flying to Colorado there. I mean I'm sure there are local people, but people do fly to Colorado. Colorado's a destination for late term abortions. I believe. Massachusetts or Maryland, either one of those, maybe both of those, are places where people go for late term abortions. And then New Mexico's another place, yeah, where people go for late term abortions. There's like these kind of late term abortion destinations. There's a documentary, it came out a couple of years ago about late term abortion facilities. I forget the name of the documentary. Maybe if I find it I can put a link in the show notes, but it was really is really informative and as a matter of fact, I kind of rewinded that videos. kind of went back a little bit on it because as they were showing the office, I noticed on the wall there was like a payment schedule for there was like prices. So I went back and kind of like zoomed into it because I wanted to see what...

...is is, and that's where I saw the tenzero dollars for I think it was like twenty eight weeks or thirty weeks or something like that. I can't remember, but they kind of have how much it cost to do abortions at those stages. Yeah, and so, yeah, that's that's very telling. But you do have the convenience factor with early term abortions, where it's just more convenient to go have an abortion than to let a baby take over your body, to have your work schedule thrown off for or whatever. And I don't mean to say that every woman that has an abortion is doing it for the sake of convenience, because it's not convenient to go to the abortion clinic and wait for three hours and do do all that stuff and then they're subjecting their bodies to, you know, some pretty pretty harsh stuff. So I don't mean to say that it's just convenient in the senses easy, but it is more convenient just to have your abortion one day then to raise a child for eighteen years. We hear that a lot. Right, you're going to raise this baby. I don't want to raise this baby for eighteen years. Right. What are you saying? You don't want to be inconvenienced. Right. And so my point is with the late term abortion thing is that people are not coming there for the sake of convenience. They've already went through several months of the pregnancy already. Their body is already been subjected to what a one's body goes through when she's pregnant, and so that factors is likely not they're are not as prominent in these situations. And again I'm imagining the just the faces of the women are more somber, more like. You know, this is not something that they're doing glibly. Right, will say right, and so I wonder if you do have a harder time convincing them. I think that is possible. Yeah, in in I imagine there's more fear. Talking about their mindset. They're probably right fearful, because they really are afraid for their life or for for what is going to be the baby's life. Yeah, and and so again, going back to that, one of the original points I'm made, testimony, telling stories. There are women who have made it through high risk pregnancies, many there are many women who have had a special needs child and could testify to the joy of that child. There's many women who have delivered a baby who is only going to live for a few minutes, yeah, or maybe hours after birth, who say that that time was so precious and it was worth going through the pregnancy in the sorrow to have that baby for those few hours or whatever time that they had. And so those testimonies, I think we should all know about them and especially if this is a the type of facility you're serving at, being able to tell those stories and give those women help and hope, hope that, even though this is a terrible situation, that there is even there is even joy possible in bringing that baby you know, I'll testimonies are a powerful way for...

...any situation that you're dealing with. If you have a corresponding testimony of your story, if you have a personal testimony, yeah, or testimony that you can share somebody you know or something you've read or video. It's just powerful because it really overcomes the you know, all of the lies that there can't be any good that comes out of this bad situation. Testimonies show that, well, God's not a respective persons and is if he was there with this woman in her story. Yeah, and there's a positive outcome here. It brings hope. Right, there can there can be a similar testimony in your situation, right, right. What reading that one article helped me to know and understand was like you. I don't think I would focus on the resources so much with a later term abortion, but I might not ignore it because if, if all of those reasons that I listed at the beginning of this podcast are true, then you've still got women who are conflicted, women who are being pressured by a boyfriend, women who are still in shock because they just found out that they were pregnant not long ago. And and so I think using our three talking points are still important. Yeah, especially focusing on the to humanity of the baby and and what God has has to say. Yeah, and the value of that child, yea for God. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, yeah, well, I think that we'll wrap this episode up. If you're if you're good to go on that. Yeah, yeah, I mean most people, I just want to say most of you will not face this. There were very few that are solely late term abortion centers, but you will. If you're in one of those destination states, you may come and meet up with women who are in a later term abortion, and I think it is important to to read these articles in and to think about what we've yeah, suggest absolutely, and we love to hear you guys feedback. Maybe you're listening to this podcast and you've ministered at one of these late term abortion facilities for a long time. If you've learned some things that you can teach us, we would love to hear from you, maybe even interview you and get some wisdom from you, because we've not been in that scenario. I'm have debt with women that are further along in pregnancy, twenty weeks plus, right, but, and I know you have to, but it's not a regular occurrence and we're certainly not ministering out an abortion clinic that that's all they do, right. So we're speaking from you know, some knowledge, but not full knowledge of what that might look like. So if you have a unique perspective on that, we'd love to hear from you. And if you have any feedback on this episode or other episodes, please reach out to us. You can reach me Daniel at Love Life Dot Org. You reach her Vicky at Love Life Dot Org. Also want to say if you guys could leave us review and whatever service you use for podcasts, we would really like to get our one point two stars up to four stars, maybe maybe three stars, because our pro abortion friends have trodde our...

...reviews. They're still putting reviews out every once in a while. We have more reviews than any other pro life podcast. Yeah, they just happen to all be one starry using pro abortion to our pro abortion friends have have really given us a lot of reviews and if you want to have some fun, read the reviews. Well, maybe not, they're pretty pretty nasty, but anyway, leaves a review if you have an opportunity to do that if you like these podcasts. But until next time, God bless God, bless you all. Give me our love for love, give me our love for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious, and some that you.

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