Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast
Gospel-Centered Pro-Life Podcast

Episode · 2 years ago

When And How To Talk About Forgiveness

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Is there a wrong time and way to talk with an abortion-minded or post-abortive woman about forgiveness? We believe there is and as believers, we should let the scriptures be our guide in subjects like this. So join Vicky and Daniel as they share their experiences and talk through the subject of forgiveness Biblically.

www.sidewalks4life.com

charlotte.cities4life.org

I Am Yours, I am yours, I am yours, s and me. Lord, I believe it or not, there's a right and wrong way and a right and wrong time to introduce the subject of forgiveness, especially with an abortion minded woman or with a woman that's just had an abortion. Scripture has a lot to say about forgiveness. So join us as we talk through this subject. I felt show Tassis touch your all right. Well, welcome back to the Gospel Center pro life podcast. We wanted to do an episode specifically about forgiveness. Forgiveness is an important topic. Right when we're talking about Biblical topics and subjects, forgiveness is one that comes up a lot. It should. We're out on the sidewalks at the abortion clinics and I'm sure those who are in pregnancy centers, those who deal with, you know, pro life issues, you deal with a topic of forgiveness and people talking about forgiveness and particular people who are post abortive or people who are going to abort, which is what we're going to talk about from our point of view, on the sidewalks and the subject of forgiveness, and you know what I'm talking about specifically is people going into an abortion clinic and say, and you know, Gods are forgiving God, therefore, I'll go in here and have my abortion, I ask for forgiveness and and I'll be good to go. Yeah, and so how do you address that biblically and what do you say in those situations? You know, what do you say when you're in a pregnancy center? My wife worked in a pregnancy center and still does some and in the counseling sessions you'll hear the same some of the same things that we hear on the sidewalk. You know. I Know God's are forgiving God and I might go in here and I want to have my abortion. He's going to forgive me and they deal with that. and pregnancy centers they deal with that. And you know, maybe in any realm of ministry when you're dealing with people actively involved in in Sinfil behavior and there's this attitude of God's going to forgive me. So how do you address that? I mean, because you have this biblical truth that God is a God that offers forgiveness, he is a forgiving God, but then you have folks that take the forgiveness of God and God's willingness to forgive as a license to sin. Right. How you deal with that? Yeah, we're going to talk about it. Does it becomes what we see over and over again. It becomes a rationalization for sin. God is a forgiving God. Therefore, I can go do really anything and God will forgive me. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it seems that the Apostle Paul dealt with the same the same subject, where he says, you know, one point, you should be sin more so that grace might abound much more. May It never be. Yeah, God forbid. Yeah, that we would take that attitude. And it really is dealing with the heart attitude. It's dealing with the attitude of people. His Heart's going to abortion clinics, are doing just in general, and you know, as Christians, we got to be careful not to have this attitude of just, you know, we can do it, we want to because God's forgiving and we're really presuming upon the forgiveness of God. We are. And and is he required? Is he required to forgive us? Is he required to do anything? Right, yeah, it tells, like I was telling you, when we're preparing, and this is something I'll say actually on a regular basis at the abortion clinics, when I'm talking to DAD's, I'm talking to MOM's, I'll say, you know what, God is not required to forgive anyone for anything. Right, God's not beholding to us. It's not like, you know, God was created for us. You know, and that's the attitude that a lot of folks have. The gods like this genie in a bottle. He was created for us to make us feel good. You know, it's it's a lot of what's put forth and you know, and a lot of the Christian books and teachings is out there. Somehow the world revolves around us. Yeah, and you know, the focus is just us, when actually the focus is God. We were made for him. He's not required. We don't know. It's not like a genie in a bottle or lamp...

...or whatever. You Rub the thing and you get what you want. Right, right, you know, God is God. He made everything. He's not required to do anything for anyone. Right, but we see he's merciful and he's willing and he does put conditions on us, though. Yeah, in terms of forgiveness, there are things that are required of us for his forgiveness. Yeah, and one of the questions that I was thinking about as I was pondering this topic, is is there unconditional forgiveness from God? And if not, well, what are the conditions? Yeah, for forgiveness? Before we jump into that, let's think about some of the dangers here, okay, because we're talking about in particulars. We're talking about women going into an abortion Clin they were talking about abortion minded women. And what are some of the dangers like? Why would we even have a concern about forgiveness? Because, you know, most people might think you of forgiveness is important, we need to be forgiving, and we do, and and God's forgiving and your forgiveness, forgiveness, forgiveness, and it's important. Blah, Blah. We don't want to get muddy up the waters and giveness. Okay, I get that. Yeah, but what are the dangers with us? You know, maybe maybe a woman's walking into an abortion clinic and and we you know, God'll forgive you. What would be the danger of doing that? And that's so dangerous and I so love that question because so many loving Christians think that the message that we should be calling out at at the sidewalk of an abortion center should be one of love, unconditional love, and forgiveness, and it is used over and over again. You and I have seen it over and over again. It is used as a motivation, in an excuse to go and do this very horrific, sinful act of killing their own child. Yeah, so forgiveness is an absolutely critical message for all of us. Yeah, all need to understand forgiveness. But the timing in a prolife ministry such as a on the sidewalk in front of an abortion center, the timing of when that message of forgiveness is given is really important. So many times I have been on a sidewalk in front of the abortion center and had a woman say, I know it's wrong, I know that God doesn't want me to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway because God is a forgiving God. Yeah, and and I think that we do need to grapple with very specifically. What are some ways that we can counter that statement? Because I've heard it over and over again, I think most of our counselors have. So it is a great, great question, question, Daniel, that that there is a danger, yeah, in the in when and how to present the message of forgiveness and the counter message or other points of confession and repentance, ycause they're all tied, yeah, together. I mean, you know, the danger in my mind is that, you know, if I've preach the message of forgiveness, and I want to say too early, but I guess in the wrong timing, that I am part of the justification, at least what I'm saying is part of the justification, for a person to go in and kill a child. Yeah, how many times have we had people who are contemplating abortion talk with us for a long time, asking a lot of questions, and really what they're doing is kind of fishing for an excuse for us to say something that excuses them to go and have the abortion, and sadly, forgiveness can be one of those things. So I'm increasingly careful about if it's a woman going into an abortion center, I rarely speak...

...about forgiveness. Yeah, yeah, unless they have made that statement. God is a forgiving God, so I'm going to go do this and I know he will forgive me. Yeah, and I know we're going to get into that. Yeah, I think one of the one of the hangups is, okay, so the statement God will forgive me actually incorrect, right, because we're going to talk about that again, because the will part is almost implies that he has to. Now I think the correct statement is God can forgive you and God is willing to forgive you, but the forgiveness is dependent upon your ability to repent. So you know I've respond with you to men especially, but also to women that I've talked to you that take that attitude of well, if I go in here, will God forgive me? And I actually will respond sometimes with no, he will not forgive you, not if you have an attitude of I'm going to do this and God is required to forgive me. God is not required. That's what I would say. I'll say God is not required to forgive anyone for anything. And if you go in to do something that you know is wrong and you harden your heart against God and the truth that he's telling you through his people right here, there's no promise that when you come out of that abortion clinic your Heart's going to be soft enough to even ask for forgiveness. Because if you harden your heart against God, and you know the Bible warns against searing your conscience like with a heart the hot iron. Is what the Bible says and it's this callousness that is not going to be softened before God, that is not going to be asking for forgiveness. You know, you've hardened your heart against God and you're going to continue to go in hardening and that's that is a scary place to be in. It is and there's lots of verses yet that warn against that. Yeah, and here's what I want to say to folks who are listening who maybe right right now thinking God's forgiving and we should be. You know, we should be gentle and we should be we've talked about that. We should be we should be kind. We don't need to be mean, we don't need to be angry, but we have to understand that when we approach ministry, that we have to approach ministry on God's terms and not based on what we feel and what we think and the idea that, you know, we don't want people to be angry with us if we don't tell them that, yeah, they're going to be forgiven if they have the abortion. It's not about them, it's not about us, it's not about our feelings, it's not about how, you know, abortion minded woman might look at us. It's about the Lord. And what does his word says anytime we approach a subject. You know, I could care less what modern society says. I could care less what modern Christianity says. I could care less what the latest, you know, you slick TV preacher, says in his latest book. I could care less. I don't know what Saith the scriptures. So when we're talking about forgiveness and we're talking about the availability of forgiveness and the application of forgiveness, what does the Bible say? That's what I want forgiveness is APPs is is the most, well, I don't know the most. It's certainly one of the most critical points of salvation. Yeah, and if you don't get forgiveness right, you're missing a major point a love. How we find our way back to God. So well, here's some verses, okay, that that I think are valuable verses. When people say I'm going to go do this horrible sin that I know God says I shouldn't do because he forgives first, John, three, six. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning. No one who keep son sinning has had either seen him or known him. And here's one of my favorites. I recite this one a lot at the abortion center. He Brews ten twenty six through seven. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, they're no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation...

...of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. So there's this in both of those. If we continue in sin, if we keep on sending if then we don't know him. He's it's very clear we don't know him. Jesus himself says this. And Luke six hundred and forty six, why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? Yeah, so, if he's our Lord, then will obey him. Yeah, you know, one of the hangouts we might have. You know, and I'm sure folks maybe just listen to those verses and you've read those verses before and you think, well, you know us. I've sinned after I became a Christian. And is that verse, especially in First John and the Hebrews verse? Is that verse discluding me, like I can't be forgiven now because I've sinned after I became a Christian. After I become a Christian, I supposed to be sinless and ever sin. No, that's not what that say. You know, as a matter of fact, John and first John and the first part of chapter two. He says I write these things little children, that you may that you send not but if any of you does sin, you haven't had to advocate with the father. Doesn't say when, by the way, because sin should be the exception and not the rule. But he does say if anyone since John Acknowledges that a Christian might fall into sin. Right, what he's talking about? He's talking about a lifestyle of sin. He's talking about a pattern of sin, rebellion against God. Keep on sinning, deliberately continue in sin. Those doosis persisting in sense. That's right, that's right. And so you know, I guess you could play with trying to figure out, well, when have I sinned enough in this same area that I'm continuing in sin? And I think you're playing with fire. Yeah, you're continuing in Senata, in any area. So if someone is walking into an abortion center has received the knowledge of truth, they know the truth, they admit it's the truth. They say, I know this is wrong. God would not approve, but I'm going to go do it anyway. That, to me is a continuing yeah to sin, when really what we're called upon is to confess our sin and repent. Yeah, and and and turn from turn. Yes, I knew some years back. Yeah, with Ray Comfort in his ministry. We use his evangelism method. I guess. To me it's the biblical method of, you know, law to the proud and grace to the humble. So sharing the law of God. WHO and people they're guilt before God in their sin. But he gave an example talking about something along these lines. He gives really good analogies and I think this one stuck in my mind and he gave the analogy of a father and son going on a fishing trip. I don't know if you ever heard this before. There's a father and son there own a fishing trip and they're camping beside this body of water, Lake or pond or whatever, and the father tells the son. He says, you know, we're here, we're having fun, we're going to enjoy our time here together, but I want to warn you that in that lake or alligators and if you go swim in that Lake, you're going to be attacked by alligators. To stay out of that that lake and will be final will have a good time. Well, the sun, you know, in the progress of time, starts thinking about okay, wow, he told me they're alligators there. I don't see the alligators there, and it looks like you'd be fun to try to just swim across to that that island. And and so the sun jumps in the water and he swims across and sure enough, just as his father warned him, alligators came and attack the young man. He's being taken under. He's about to lose his life and the father goes into the pond to get his son out and fight the alligators and gets bit himself and, you know, even loses a limb to rescue a son, drags him back to shore and throws him up on shore and rescues him in that way. And The Sun looks round. Thanks father for saving me, but it was really fun out there in the pond. And he goes and jumps back in the pond. Is He really understanding the gravity of what his father did for him? is He really understanding the the nature of his transgression of his father's words. Right, he's not. It's right person that goes into an abortion clinic that talks about forgiveness and talks about, you know, God's disposition towards humanity, which is one of love and gray and forgiveness, and that's true. But then they...

...have this attitude. So I'm going to go and swim with the alligators anyway, even though I know that you know and whatever, they really don't grasp the the the full scope of what Jesus Christ did on the Cross when they have that attitude, and I would say if they have that attitude, they're not born of God, they don't know the Lord, they don't know his forgiveness. Yeah, that's what we're dealing with for the most part, and that's a great story and I think stories are a way to respond. Jesus responded that way in parable. So also kind. But I've actually use that story with a few of the the man that I've spoken to and feel the ladies I've spoken to over the years at the abortion clinic and just gave them that and it's something they can connect with. Yeah, I I've done a similar thing with with just another story where I've said well, okay, you're correct. God is a forgiving God, and and and so let me ask you this. If, if you're married and and your husband comes to you and says, there's a really great looking neighbor just moved in next door and I am going to go have an affair with her, it means nothing. I'm just attracted to her. I'm going to go, I'll be right back, because you are a forgiving woman and you've forgiven me so much in the past that I know you're going to forgive me for this. So, honey, just I'll be back in twenty minutes. Yeah, and then I say to the one women, would this fly with you? It's that unacceptable thing. Yeah, and they say no, well, no, of course it wouldn't. You're presuming, you're going and doing something that you know is going to harm and hurt and disregard the the covenant that you have made with someone you love. Yeah, and you're presuming on their forgiveness when you come back. And when, when you put it in those terms, though, the women understand. Well, yeah, I know, I that that would not be okay, but that's what we're asking of God. Yeah, when we say you are forgiving God, therefore, I am going to break my covenant with you. I'm going to disregard your clear commands thou shall not murder. Yeah, because I'm going to presume on on your forgiveness. Yeah, and, like you said earlier, God's not required to forgive. Yeah, and God's not going to be trifled with. You know, the Bible would in the biblical principle, whatever you so that's what you'll reap if you so. Death. Don't expect to reason, you to reap this glorious union with God and this glorious reception, because death brings about death. And you, you've rejected God's truth and you rejected the availability of his forgiveness by exchanging that for really a lie, because that's, you know, just saying that you're sorry and coming and somehow that's going to bring restoration. That's not forgiveness and that's not restoration and certainly not repentance. Right, and let me let me read to you a few verses, because you just talked about when you just say you're sorry, which is confession. It's the confession of your sorrow over your sin. Right. So there are some verses, lots of verses, but I'll read just a couple and then I want to ask you about, if you could talk more about that, the difference between confession and repentance and how how that is all a part of the whole forgiveness. Yeah, the whole picture, for the whole picture forgiveness. Okay, so Romans ten, nine to ten. If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved, for it is by our faith that we are pute right with God. It is by our confession that we are saved. And some. Thirty two five. Then I confessed my sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. I decided to confess them to you and you forgave all my sins. And then the last one. I'll read to you first, John One nine. If we confess our...

...sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all righteousness, all and Righteous Oh, I'm sorry, all on righteousness. So I know you've heard, as I have many times from women who are at the abortion center. Well, I've said I'm sorry, yeah, I've told God I'm sorry. Yeah, is that? Does that earn God's forgiveness. Yeah, well, again there's that attitude of you know, we don't believe anyone can earn their salvation. Salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Confession is an important part of repentance and God, you know, does not reject those who honestly like that Psalm says, you know, I confess my sins to you. I did not conceal my wrongdoings. Bible says those that conceal their sins will not prosper, but those that confess and forsake them will have mercy. So there's this confession and this forsakings and that's where repentance really comes in, because repentance is not just saying I'm sorry. You know, we think about you know, repent. You know that word is, I guess, maybe more of a you know, religious word or people, you know, kind of look at it. But the Greek word has some very practical implications. And some people say, well, just repent means just change your mind. No, not really. It's part. That's part of it. It's to change your mind, it's for your heart to be changed. And here's the point. The important point is it's the direction of your feet changing. It actually is a one hundred and eighty degree turn. So true repentance, if a mother's going into an abortion clinic, true repentance is not just confessing that what she did is wrong or what she's about to do is wrong, but it's actually turning around and leaving the place right and you know, and there is a difference in what we're talking to, and we'll get to mothers who've already had abortions and forgiveness, because that the message of forgiveness is an important message for those have already had abortions. Right now, what we're talking about is sort of a preemptive forgiveness. And is that available? Is that something that God offers? It's not. You will not see in the Bible where, you know, someone confesses, you know, I'm about to go and commit adultery God, but I know you're forgiving, so you'll forgive me. You don't see God receiving that. No, where ever in the scriptures. Right you see an attitude like this because you know maybe shift into a post abortive woman, somebody who's already committed sin. Psalm fifty one told you I wanted to go here. The Psalm was just, yeah, powerful Psalm of repentance, Right Confession and repentance of sin. And this is David after he had sinned with best she send in a gross way. He'd broken all ten of the Ten Commandments, you know, and this and this one span of time in his life and he's confronting into sin by Nathan the Prophet, and this psalms I'm fifty one is is a psalm that flows out of that and he starts it out by saying, have mercy on me, O God, according to your loving kindness, according to the multitude of your tender Mercies, blot out my transgressions. He goes on to say against you, this is the verse, four against you, and you only have a sinned and done this evil in your sight that you may be found just dust when you speak and blameless when you judge. So He's acknowledging this important point that when we sin it's not just against people, it's against God himself. In the sin of abortion, that sin is against that baby for sure, but more importantly even than that, it's a sin against God. And David acknowledged here in Psalm fifty one that the sin that he committed with Bathsheba and the murder of your eye and all of that. Was Not just a sin against your eye, it wasn't just a sin against Bathsheba. Wasn't just a sin against Israel because he was their king, it was a sin against God himself. Then he goes on movement, moving down to it, to an important point. Here. We're talking about for confession and forgiveness. Is this. It says, Old Lord, Open My lips and my mouth...

...shall flow forth your praise, for you do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it, and you do not delight and burnt offerings, the sacrifices of God or a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. These, old God, you will not despise broken and college cry Contriarte, so construction, self righteous and self I know I'm going to go do this. Yeah, and then I will ask forgiveness. It means I'm a worm. I. Yeah, contrition is an acknowledgement that we've sinned against a holy God. Contrition is is is almost the picture of sackcloth and ashes. I mean there are those who in the Old Testament, who put on sackcloth and ashes as an outward sign of contrition in their hearts over the sin of their people over their own sin and and you, God is not at God doesn't need us groveling in the dirt and all that's not about that. But God wants your heart. You know, that's what God has always been after. He's been after the human heart, and the human heart that is hard and just basically presumes upon the forgiveness of God, like you're going to forgive me. Is Not the heart that God is after. He's after a broken, like it says here, a broken and contrite heart. You will not despise. That's what God is after. Yeah, broken to yourself and your self desires and with a heart that is seeking God's desires. And so you're broken because you see how, Paul, how much you've fallen. Yeah, yeah, you know the attitude that a woman going into an abortion clineker anyone just in general, that you know, I'm going to go in the Strip club and you know, God's forgiving God, so he'll forgive me. I'm going to go and get drunk. I Know God's are forgiving God, so he's going to forgive me. That attitude is not one of contrition. That attitude is one of hardness, and that's, you know, James Chapter Four. God resists the proud. That is pride. That is pride, that is bringing pride into the equation. The Bible Says God resists that. Yeah, he does not delight in that. I think it's not recognizing that God is a just God and a wrathful God. Yeah, it shows a grave lack of the fear of the Lord. Exactly. And and and a lack of the fear of Lord. Listen, Bible tells us the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. You'll be a why, as person, fear God? Right, right, and and something you said. He doesn't want US scrabbling. No, but he also doesn't want US continuing down a destructive path. Yeah, and any path that takes us away from God is a destructive path. And it's important to know that a third of abortions are repeat abortions. Yeah, statistically, a third of those women are continuing in sin. This is one of many abortions and if there doesn't come a point, at at some point, where someone is willing to speak truth about God's forgiveness and what true repentance looks like, they will continue that path. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, took further and that's been one of the burdens on our hearts as we you know, we deal with this as far as women going into the abortion clinic with an attitude of you know, I'm going to do this and God's going to forgive me, and we've already talked about that. But we also deal with the women who've come out after the abortions and you know, God has really blessed us with some wonderful people in the afternoon teams because the way it's set up here in Charlotte, I don't know how it is in other cities, but basically the abortion patients come in in the morning. They're typically there by thirty two have their abortions. So we know that we're reaching those who are coming in for an abortion. In the afternoons, you know, after the abortionist gets there and sometime after you'll have the people who have come out who be either taking the abortion people or had a surgical abortion, and that that is a post aboordive woman directly after having had an abortion. Is the message of forgiveness important there, or should we take an attitude, and we might could justify take an attitude of you know, just hey, you wicked murder or look what you've done. I mean, could we say that? would be justified in saying that? Possibly, but would that be helpful? So it's almost like, like you said, the timing can...

...be really important, the timing in the sense of what's the goal, and the goal is restoration. Ultimately, the goal is restoration of those people to God. Yeah, and how do you restore in in the person who's contemplating abortion but has not yet done it? You restore by really talking about the severity of that sin against God and you can't do that against your Lord and against that baby. It is wrong, it is evil. Restoration of the woman who has already done it is, I think, many fold, and I think we discussed this already a little bit in another podcast. But first of all, a recognition of sin, which they at first when they come out the statistically they're going to feel relief. There's not going to be necessarily that sense of deep sin. So a recognition of sin and then leading them through the process by which you are restored back to God through confession, repentance and then faith suggestion of your life. We just practically speaking. Maybe some folks might ask. Okay, so what do you say to a woman that's just come out after having had an abortion. Yeah, how do you you know, how do you you know, not make a light of what she just died but also all for forgiveness. I mean by you. You know, you've shared your testimony, you've talked about it several times on the podcast about you yourself being post abord. You've had an abortion and you know someone what goes on and and you can speak to that and certainly you're not going to speak to that in a way that makes it look like there's no forgiveness, right. But how do you address that? I mean, yeah, I'm your standpoint well, and I think it is hard. I we train our afternoon teams and the first thing I tell them is this is a delicate balance that you're walking be. You want them to talk to you, you do want to be able to get the the literature into their hands that has post aboard of help, but you do want them to recognize that what they just did was wrong. And the overwhelming majority, I would say, of them that walk out say it's okay, I'm good. Yeah, but so typically, and not that I have the answer, but some of the things that I will call out are things like I know that many women deeply regret an abortion. And if you don't feel sorrow right now, you very well mate down the road and you may need help. Yeah, learning how to deal with that and I'll sometimes even say deal with this sin for yourself and before God. Yeah, so it's introducing, I hope gently, the idea that what you did there, cause it's grief and despair and is sin. Yeah, and if they say I'm good, I think we've talked about that in the past, I will often counter with well, I myself thought that at one point in my life as well, and I'll go into my own story and how that my immediate response was relief and thinking everything was now going to be fine. But as it turned out, the older and older I got in the further the more I understood God and the depth of that sin, the actually the the greater the burden and pain and sorrow. Yeah, over that was. So that's how I deal with it. Yeah, I'm not sure what others say and I don't think that there's any magic thing that you can say, but I think the principle of what you say is don't gloss over the fact that what happened there was wrong. Yeah, yeah, you know, timing. You know, people might say timing is not that important. Even your volume actually can be important. You there's there's a proverb.

Forget exactly where it's at, but I promise it's in there. Okay. They basically says if you bless your brother loudly early in the morning, it will be received as a curse. So there is a certain timing that. What is that telling us? Well, timing early in the morning. Volume actually can matter. Your tone of voice can matter, you know, whenever the words maybe necessarily don't matter so much. They do matter. I'm not saying they don't in the Bible certainly acknowledges correct words, words that are true to the word, are important. But your timing in your volume does matter. And there's a scripture. It's a messionic prophecy scripture. It says, speaking of Jesus, that he won't quench a smoking flax nor break a bruised read right. Well, that's saying is you know, basically those are already broken. Jesus is not going to break them even further. You Know God, God doesn't kick people when they're down. A matter of fact, the Bible tells us when we're down as when God is willing to raise us up. Hum will yourself under the mighty hand of God and he will lift you up. And so there's a certain sense that, you know, I've encounted, and that was certainly have encountered, a lot of women that come out they're just are getting proud. And how do you respond to that? Typically, you know what, I'll just bow my head and pray for them because typically, if they're coming out and they have an attitude of just bitterness and against me, because what it is is really the conviction they feel in themselves, that I'll might, I might steing them with a little bit of truth and say, you know what, you just killed your child. You should turn to the Lord. I might say something like that, but I'm not going to engage in some lengthy conversation with him. Typically, I'm going to pray for the Holy Spirit to do his work in their heart. But I haven't count I mean just it was goupled days ago. It was one of those days, you know, sometimes things just come in waves, and it was one of those days where we had like three women in a row that came out of the abortion clinic with I mean just ball it. They were just crying and their hearts were broken over what they had just done. Am I going to look at her and I'm going to say, look what you just did, you wicked center. No, she's already broken, right, she already acknowledges what she's done. She's totally ripe for the message of forgiveness. Yeah, that's the person then, that she needs to know. She's recognized her yeah, she's recognized that. It's broken her heart and, and I would say that very directly, I can see that your heart is broken. I am so sorry. Can we talk about there is help, there is hope, there is forgiveness. Yeah, can I share with you how you can find that? I mean one of the things I'm not going to say those. I'm not going to say you don't need to cry, you're forgiven, because that's not true. No, nice to cry. She needs to weep, and that to me is such a positive sign that she recognizes. And the danger there is you don't want someone becoming suicidal. Yeah, and and knowing from my own experience, you can it. It's horrific. When you recognize the depth of what you've done, it can take you over the edge. Yeah, so. So that message of forgiveness then, which is why the afternoon teams for us in our ministry is so important. That, and it's important for others who were doing sidewall counselor working in a pregnancy center understand this these points too. That's true. That's true because at that point the message of forgiveness made very well save that woman's life. Yeah, and also, rather than having her turn inward with that pain and to anger or self destruction or bitterness towards God, hopefully the the opposite will happen, that she will then release that pain and use it for God's glory. And that's what that's again, that restoration. The goal is restoration. Yeah, one of the things I say oftentimes is, you know, we don't begin with God until we've come to the end of ourselves, and sometimes it's something like doing something as horrible as an abortion that will bring us to the end of ourselves to show us, you know what, I'm not good right, I am not right, I am not going in the right direction and I need someone to rescue me. And so hopefully in that situation there's a...

...gospel voice, there's a there's a proclaimer of truth on that sidewalk, at that pregnancy center, at that you know whatever you know. A lot of times God will break post aboordive women in a church service when somebody's preaching about abortion and they're broken and hopefully there's somebody there that will offer the message of forgiveness and rest ration in light of that sin and bring the hope that comes in the name of Jesus, not just glossing over it again, not just say well, you're forgiven, so it's okay. It's not okay. Yeah, but if you'll turn to the Lord Jesus. Now I've said this quite a few times. I member one lady. I may even shared this on the podcast before. May Have not, but there was. It's a couple of years ago. This young lady was coming out of the abortion clinic parking lot and she stopped in the driveway and I'm setting up, I'm actually taken down the sound system and putting it away, and she stops in the driveway and I hander one of our brochures, and that's an important point. Guys that have some kind of information. You have one that's called hope and healing and it has your testimony in and it's got the Gospel in there and it's talks about some of the risks and things associated with abortion and some of the things watch out for anyway, and has healing resources on it exactly. Yeah, local ministries, thing for MAG with and whatever. And so I handed her brochure and and she said, you know, I wish I would have listened to the truth you guys are telling me out here, as I was going in that she was back for a follow up, a point as I wish I would listen to the truth you guys are telling me out here instead of the lies they were telling me inside of there. And she says, I know God is a forgiving God, but I don't think he can ever forgive me for this. And I go right to first John. You know, the Bible says if we confess our sins, he's faithful and just forgive us our sins and it cleanse us from all in righteousness. And I'm not saying that just to all you have to do is say you're sorry and a knowledge. No, I'm saying that to say there is an availability of God, by His mercy, to forgive if you'll confess, as you were sin, if you will acknowledge and I went right for us. And you know, you've got to acknowledge that you've sinned against God and when you took that baby's life, you didn't just make a mistake, you didn't just do something to her. You and I I'm using a very in this conversation, a very soft tone, or not right. You know, I'm not, you know, condemning her in the sense. You know, I'm not being, you know, hard nosed in that sense, but I'm pointing to the Scripture and I'm pointing her to the Savior, and that's what we need to do. We've got a point people to the savior. We're not their savior, and so our first you know, we don't need to just pointed to some ministry. You want any just point him to some whatever. We need to point to the savior turned to the Lord, Jesus. Yeah, it turned Jesus and he is willing to forgive and to save all those who will truly turn to him. That's the message of the Gods and that is truly the only, the only real hope and healing that any post aboard of woman is going to find. They it is, you know, as probably as horrific as sin as a woman can do. Yeah, destroy her own child. And there is, there is never going to be in this world a way that you can rationalize that kind of pain. Yeah, away, but but Jesus can heal your heart. Yeah, can. Can even use that pain to to further his kingdom. Yeah. So that's a message that is critical for them to hear. And for forgiveness is is just essential. Yeah, absolutely, you know, and it's a message just like the message of the value of human life. The the message of forgiveness, healing and restoration, salvation that comes to Jesus Christ is the message that we need to be bringing in this realm. That's why this podcast is Gospel centered. Pro Life is because it's not just about saving the lives of babies. I don't say just to minimize that, because that's massively important, but it's also about bringing the Gospel, bringing the Gospel to these men and women at the abortion clinics. Hopefully their heart is softened by the Gospel before they go in and they choose life for their baby based on their acceptance of the Gospel. We've seen that...

...happen. Yeah, but if they've had the abortion and they come out our prayers that their heart is softened by the Gospel rather than hardened by their sin, because that can happen. It's softened by the Gospel and they turn to the Lord Jesus, because we're there bringing this message of healing, restoration, forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ and you. That's our job as Christians to bring Christ in, especially to these very dark places. So you know, with that I think we'll wrap this thing up. We appreciate those who have listened and hopefully this podcast has been a blessing to you and you know, we'd love to hear any suggestions you have for other podcasts. We'd love to hear maybe just some feedback on this podcast. Is there a point that we that we just kind of glazed over and you want to hear a little more about? We'd certainly love to get into that a little deeper. Is there something you know someone you'd like for us to interview on the podcast? We'd love to do that. We'd like to hear back from you, so you email me. Deep Parks at cities for lifecom Vicky At v Cossi orgcom. Share these podcasts. You can share them on facebook you can share them, you know, I guess on twitter. Whatever. You get the link and and share that and leave us some feedback in the reviews on apple podcasts and on Google podcasts and other podcast services. There's a place where you can add a review and you can, you know, let us know how we're doing. But we do appreciate you, guys, for listening and a will. We'll talk to you guys real soon. God bless give me out left for love, give me our loft for gratitude. I know it will cost me my life. Nothing's too precious and some that you.

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